[junctionist]

Looks too sexy:

It makes a good first impression, but I hope that what they decide to get is dominated by the red/black combination like the CLRVs.

 

[p5connex]

This latest rendition is much better than what they were originally showing at the EX and also at Dundas Sq.
I also tend to agree that I would like to see this painted in the TTC's livery, maybe even do a few traditional maroon and gold ones? That said, I think that due to their size and capacities, the TTC would ultimately be able to run less of them, making issues at Union or Broadview less problematic.

However I think that they will have to rebuild a lot of the street stops (I believe this is their intention anyways) in order to meet the streetcar entrances and exits.

pr

 

[Hipster Duck]

Another consideration will be the greater distance back that motorists have to give for these new streetcars. In Berlin, there is a line drawn on the road with a traffic light that automatically goes to red once a streetcar pulls up to a stop. This gives passengers loading and unloading from the five doors a very clear berth of the road. Of course, the Toronto Transit Cynic (TTC!) in me is morosely predicting that nothing like this would happen here, given that signal priority systems have not been enabled on any streetcar routes in this city have never been enabled, despite having been designed for that purpose.

 

[JasonParis]

Another consideration will be the greater distance back that motorists have to give for these new streetcars. In Berlin, there is a line drawn on the road with a traffic light that automatically goes to red once a streetcar pulls up to a stop. This gives passengers loading and unloading from the five doors a very clear berth of the road. Of course, the Toronto Transit Cynic (TTC!) in me is morosely predicting that nothing like this would happen here, given that signal priority systems have not been enabled on any streetcar routes in this city have never been enabled, despite having been designed for that purpose.

One of the reasons that I call for less stops particularly on streetcar routes is to increase the possibility that you could do something similar to what Berlin does here.

 

[allabootmatt]

But if there are less stops, people will have to walk farther to get to their stop, and going shopping in the empty fields at Jane and Eglinton will become considerably less attractive by streetcar.

 

[EnviroTO]

But if there are less stops, people will have to walk farther to get to their stop, and going shopping in the empty fields at Jane and Eglinton will become considerably less attractive by streetcar.

Well... except for the fact that under any stop spacing scheme Jane and Eglinton would probably get a stop for transferring purposes. Perhaps they would get rid of Emmett and instead create a direct walkway from Jane and Eglinton up the hill to the apartment complex rather than expecting that people would walk a completely indirect path down a winding Emmett to an intersection which is hard to cross.

 

[allabootmatt]

Yes Jane and Eglinton will certainly have multiple stops...I was more referring to the fact that the TTC and Streetcar Steve tend to totally rule out reducing stop frequency, because that would make transit less attractive as a local service--the creation of one being the avowed goal of Transit City and the reason for its discounting of reduced travel times as an important goal. The idea, so the story goes, is to make places like Jane + Eg transit friendly...except that the built form of such places (if there's any built form at all) is totally transit hostile.

And yet when asked if the idea of TC is therefore to promote transit-friendly redevelopment along its routes, the answer is always 'no.' All this makes me wonder just what the point of this whole scheme is, since it's not going to do much for commuters (or anyone trying to get out of their immediate neighbourhood) without reducing stop numbers significantly, and it's awfully hard to bring 'local' service to areas totally unsuited to it.

I really, really want to be on board with the direction of transit planning in Toronto, since we appear to have a historic opportunity to get shovels in the ground. But the way this is going totally stinks to me, and I can't shake it. Dogmas are dangerous things, whatever their content. For a long time there was a subway dogma in Toronto, and that meant not a lot got done. Now we have an almost fanatical light rail dogma, except it's one that seems bent on ignoring many of the positives of 'European-style' systems, which Adam Giambrone keeps telling us is what we're in fact getting.

 

[W. K. Lis]

The Jane LRT would have a stop/station at Weston Road, which will have Emmett at its south end. However, since Eglinton would probably be built before Jane, a transfer to a Jane northbound bus may have to be done.
Does anyone know the grade of the the inclines on Jane and Eglinton? I think that the several hills, valleys, and railway bridge in the Mt. Dennis (Jane, Weston, and Eglinton) area maybe tunneled through so that the steep inclines would not have to navigated.
There is a preferred grade incline of 5% for the new LRVs. The steepest current grade incline is at Bathurst Street and Davenport, which is 8%.

 

[RedRocket191]

The Jane LRT would have a stop/station at Weston Road, which will have Emmett at its south end. However, since Eglinton would probably be built before Jane, a transfer to a Jane northbound bus may have to be done.
Does anyone know the grade of the the inclines on Jane and Eglinton? I think that the several hills, valleys, and railway bridge in the Mt. Dennis (Jane, Weston, and Eglinton) area maybe tunneled through so that the steep inclines would not have to navigated.
There is a preferred grade incline of 5% for the new LRVs. The steepest current grade incline is at Bathurst Street and Davenport, which is 8%.

The new LRVs will be able to push a disabled car up an 8% grade. I don't think the grades at Jane & Eglinton will be a problem.

 

[DENTROBATE54]

Ideally these new TC lines don't have to adhere to 'straight' formulae and the Jane stop can actually be veered upto Jane/Weston instead of in the midsts of Eglinton Flats park. At least then a sizable local density, proximity to Weston Village and West Park Medical can be achieved.

 

[unimaginative2]

Ideally these new TC lines don't have to adhere to 'straight' formulae and the Jane stop can actually be veered upto Jane/Weston instead of in the midsts of Eglinton Flats park. At least then a sizable local density, proximity to Weston Village and West Park Medical can be achieved.

If you mean the Eglinton line, then no, but the Jane streetcar would serve that area.

 

[JasonParis]

Now we have an almost fanatical light rail dogma, except it's one that seems bent on ignoring many of the positives of 'European-style' systems, which Adam Giambrone keeps telling us is what we're in fact getting.

Yet European cities have stop placement every 0.5km to 1km apart.

From yesterday's STAR...

What riders will see and hear on future streetcars
January 26, 2008

The TTC is buying 204 streetcars to replace its existing fleet, the first of which should arrive in 2010. But the Transit City plan to put light rail on every major avenue in the city would require an additional 364 streetcars.

Why streetcars?

Toronto has been running streetcars for more than 100 years, and most transit experts say light rail is a practical and popular option.

In Europe and the United States, it has helped revitalize neighbourhoods and raise property values. Toronto's streetcar technology hasn't changed significantly since the 1930s. The cars run on electricity conducted and returned via wires on the roofs. The new models are expected to use 10 to 20 per cent less electricity and will contain more recyclable components.

Streetcars carry more people than buses. New cars have even more capacity, carrying a "crush load" of 260 to 270 people, compared with 132 passengers on the standard streetcars and 204 on the articulated cars.

Despite the challenges of running streetcars in mixed traffic, they already serve some of the busiest routes – a total of more than 91,000 people a day ride on the King and Queen lines, compared with about 37,000 on the TTC's busiest bus route, on Dufferin St. Transit City lines will be built with dedicated rights-of-way; and in sections, on Eglinton Ave., Jane St. and Pape Ave., it will operate underground.

The width of the cars will be almost identical – 2.54 metres – and the 3.685-metre height won't change. The length, however, is expected to vary between 27 and 30 metres, depending on the manufacturer.

What riders will see and hear

The new cars will be less tank-like, featuring a rounder, sleeker exterior. There is a provision to allow for a minor slope in the floor, but there will be no steps inside, making them fully accessible.

Existing platforms will be built up to allow for level boarding at a uniform height of 35 centimetres.

They will have larger windows and doorways, be more ergonomic, airy and contemporary, according to Stephen Lam, the TTC's superintendent of streetcar engineering. Improved heating, ventilation and air conditioning will also add to rider comfort.

The new cars will be loaded from all doors, be equipped with an audio and visual stop-announcement system. It will be possible to flip up two seating areas to make room for wheelchairs.

The driver will sit in an enclosed cab and will not handle fares. There will be improved exterior lighting and in mixed traffic, LED pictograms will warn drivers of an impending stop.

But the familiar rumble as they travel down the tracks won't change.

The controversies

Low-floor: The previous generation of 100 per cent low-floor streetcars had problems with cracking and derailment.

"We are fully cognizant of the design deficiencies of the earlier generation of vehicles and are taking the necessary measures to ensure that the car builders can address all the TTC concerns even with their latest designs," says Lam.

At least 29 cities are using low-floor cars, including Geneva, Amsterdam, Athens and Paris and U.S. Transportation Research Board data show half of the streetcar orders in the world are for 100 per cent low-floor, he said.

Although there will be no steps inside the car, there could be a slope about 50 mm higher in the centre than at the threshold, depending on where the wheel works, known as bogies, are located.

Canadian content:

Toronto Transit commissioners have already decreed that the company that wins the streetcar contract will have to prove that 25 per cent, or about $300 million, of its parts and labour will be made in Canada.

That's based on a consultant's report that says increasing the Canadian content requirement beyond 25 per cent would discriminate against non-Canadian bidders.

-Tess Kalinowski

 

[allabootmatt]

I am encouraged by the news that there will be underground TC routes on parts of Pape and Jane; that would seem to make future underground extensions south of Bloor more likely.

 

[MisterF]

I like that Bombardier streetcar. The all-door loading should really speed up Spadina and St Clair but the mixed traffic lines will probably still be just as slow.

Yet European cities have stop placement every 0.5km to 1km apart.

Not on downtown, mixed traffic lines. The central Prague streetcar network is a lot like Toronto. It's in the outlying areas that they get faster with stops farther apart.

 

[p5connex]

^^Very true- its like that in Vienna as well. I think, within the city the stops are roughly spaced about 400m apart. I know it is bordering on the half a km. distance..nonetheless closer.

p5