denfromoakvillemilton
Senior Member
It is. And it looks bad on us.
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- Thread starter denfromoakvillemilton
- Start date
nfitz
Superstar
Ah yes, I see ... though I don't understand the need to identify the gender of the poster ... but I guess you meant that humorously.
I don't think that means that Torontonians would object to it more than those in Vancouver. Heck, we certainly accepted the HST more willingly here ... even though it was on gasoline here, and wasn't on gasoline in BC.
But if you factor that in you also need to factor in things like the B-Line. BRT definitely is rapid transit, but I think the criteria for that stat is grade-separated rail-based rapid transit.
You're right though that the GTA should have the lead back by 2020ish. It'll also be an interesting debate if GO REX will count into that stat as well. If it does, it'll pretty much triple the KMs of the RT system.
nfitz
Superstar
The B-Line rapid transit? It's faster than the parallel trolley buses, but it's only an express bus. How is it anymore rapid transit than the TTC Airport Rocket ... or heck the Finch East express bus? It certainly isn't as fast as the TTC Airport Rocket (though neither is our subway).
innsertnamehere
Superstar
the eglinton LRT won't technically count as a metro because it isn't grade seperated, so we will only be adding an additional 3.6km of actual metro by 2020. (scarborough RT extension)
Well for one it uses dedicated shoulder lanes. The only bus that comes even close to that in Toronto in Don Mills, and that has really short stop spacing and uses standard length buses.
I think that Eglinton would still count. I mean, by almost all definitions the Green Line is Boston is part of their metro system, and it has 2 of the 3 branches that are at-grade, with a central tunnelled portion.
denfromoakvillemilton
Senior Member
Now I think Nfitz might be right. If you count the streetcars, will Toronto be on par?
M II A II R II K
Senior Member
Scarborough Residents Talk Transit
Read More: http://torontoist.com/2013/02/scarborough-residents-talk-transit/
Feeling Congested Website: http://feelingcongested.ca/#whats-at-stake
About two dozen Toronto residents went to the Scarborough Civic Centre Wednesday night to take part in “Feeling Congested?,” a City campaign to build consensus around transportation priorities.
- After some introductory remarks by staff, attendees began to discuss how the City could go about improving the way it moves people and goods across the region. Norm Feder, a retired Scarborough resident who primarily uses a car, spoke up. “Improving the travel experience for commuters is my number one priority,” he said. He added that he’d like to see developments along public-transit corridors be planned in better consultation with existing residents. “The City and the province have to co-ordinate development instead of doing it unilaterally,” he said.
- Others, like Guled Arale, a student and public transit advocate, argued in favour of density and an accompanying transit network as a way of addressing inequality. “People use cars not because they choose to drive,” Arale said of residents in Scarborough, “it’s because they need to drive. We need to think about building communities where people can live and work without going across or out of the city.” He favoured more walkable communities and transit connections within Scarborough.
- The scale of new developments was a recurring theme throughout the evening, one that Councillor Shelley Carroll (Ward 33, Don Valley East) addressed. “Look at how long it’s taken us to build what [former mayor] Mel [Lastman] promised us,” she said, referring to development along the Sheppard subway line. “It’s a huge challenge to develop with density because many people don’t want the buildings, but they also don’t want taxes for transportation.”
- Rob Hatton, a corporate financing staffer with the City, noted that since Metrolinx is expected to release on a report on how to fund transit in the GTA, now would be a bad time for Toronto to begin its own conversation about taxes and fees for transportation. “We’re not going there,” Hatton said bluntly. He pointed out that one quarter of the approximately $2 billion Metrolinx plans to raise annually will come back to municipalities to fund their priorities.
- Transportation advocate Jose Ramon Gutierrez cautioned against taxing drivers who commute long distances across the city. “I see that there’s a big bias against car drivers,” Gutierrez said. He said the City should convert unused hydro and transit corridors into new highways. Others, like resident Ross Jamieson, favoured parking levies and highway tolls that would raise revenue and discourage driving to major city centres. “The people who use the most should pay the most,” he said. Revenues derived from vehicle use dominated the discussion, while few favoured options to tax income, sales, and payrolls.
.....
Read More: http://torontoist.com/2013/02/scarborough-residents-talk-transit/
Feeling Congested Website: http://feelingcongested.ca/#whats-at-stake
About two dozen Toronto residents went to the Scarborough Civic Centre Wednesday night to take part in “Feeling Congested?,” a City campaign to build consensus around transportation priorities.
- After some introductory remarks by staff, attendees began to discuss how the City could go about improving the way it moves people and goods across the region. Norm Feder, a retired Scarborough resident who primarily uses a car, spoke up. “Improving the travel experience for commuters is my number one priority,” he said. He added that he’d like to see developments along public-transit corridors be planned in better consultation with existing residents. “The City and the province have to co-ordinate development instead of doing it unilaterally,” he said.
- Others, like Guled Arale, a student and public transit advocate, argued in favour of density and an accompanying transit network as a way of addressing inequality. “People use cars not because they choose to drive,” Arale said of residents in Scarborough, “it’s because they need to drive. We need to think about building communities where people can live and work without going across or out of the city.” He favoured more walkable communities and transit connections within Scarborough.
- The scale of new developments was a recurring theme throughout the evening, one that Councillor Shelley Carroll (Ward 33, Don Valley East) addressed. “Look at how long it’s taken us to build what [former mayor] Mel [Lastman] promised us,” she said, referring to development along the Sheppard subway line. “It’s a huge challenge to develop with density because many people don’t want the buildings, but they also don’t want taxes for transportation.”
- Rob Hatton, a corporate financing staffer with the City, noted that since Metrolinx is expected to release on a report on how to fund transit in the GTA, now would be a bad time for Toronto to begin its own conversation about taxes and fees for transportation. “We’re not going there,” Hatton said bluntly. He pointed out that one quarter of the approximately $2 billion Metrolinx plans to raise annually will come back to municipalities to fund their priorities.
- Transportation advocate Jose Ramon Gutierrez cautioned against taxing drivers who commute long distances across the city. “I see that there’s a big bias against car drivers,” Gutierrez said. He said the City should convert unused hydro and transit corridors into new highways. Others, like resident Ross Jamieson, favoured parking levies and highway tolls that would raise revenue and discourage driving to major city centres. “The people who use the most should pay the most,” he said. Revenues derived from vehicle use dominated the discussion, while few favoured options to tax income, sales, and payrolls.
.....
ssiguy2
Senior Member
Vancouver not only has the BLine system but also huge systems of bus-only lanes on the highways. On HWY#99, the bus-only lanes total 15km. The new Port Mann has incorporated into a BRT system with separate lanes, HOV lanes, special access routes, and stations, The city has several bus que-jumper lanes and is building a bus-only lane down busy HWY #7.
Can you imagine Toronto ever coordinating it's road and bus network when they are under constriuction? Even the idea is comical. That's what happens when you have different transit agencies, highway depts, and City Halls that scarcely acknowledge each other's existence little alone coordinate the system.
Also, Eglinton is NOT a Metro and just because Boston calls theirs a Metro doesn't make it so. Edmonton LRT goes underground for much of it's length but no one there calls it a Metro/subway because it's not. The only thing Eglinton has in common with a full Metro is the pricetag.
Can you imagine Toronto ever coordinating it's road and bus network when they are under constriuction? Even the idea is comical. That's what happens when you have different transit agencies, highway depts, and City Halls that scarcely acknowledge each other's existence little alone coordinate the system.
Also, Eglinton is NOT a Metro and just because Boston calls theirs a Metro doesn't make it so. Edmonton LRT goes underground for much of it's length but no one there calls it a Metro/subway because it's not. The only thing Eglinton has in common with a full Metro is the pricetag.
nfitz
Superstar
Obviously not ... it's a train in an underground subway!
I really don't get this determination to argue over names ...
CDL.TO
Moderator
The downtown Toronto edition of the Metrolinx "Big Conversation" roundtables is tomorrow.
Metro Hall, Room 308, 1-3pm
http://www.bigmove.ca/roundtable
Metro Hall, Room 308, 1-3pm
http://www.bigmove.ca/roundtable
I'm in the GTA this weekend, and I'm planning on being there! Should be an interesting discussion.
TOareaFan
Superstar
This is the way internet debates/discussions/arguments move.
Poster A says "Vancouver has now got more Rapid Transit than Toronto
Poster B says "sure but after we build Eglinton we will have more Rapid Transit than Vancouver
Poster C says "no way Eglinton is a Metro" (likely innocently enough as they equate in their minds Rapid Transit as Metros)
Then a debate ensues over whether or not Eglinton is a "Metro" whereas the initial discussion was about the km of RT (which, in both cities, would include lots of lines/modes that are not "metro").
As goalposts move....so does the discussion!
JayBeeGooner
Active Member
By your definition, surface LRT in it's own ROW is rapid transit.
It is. But I believe the stat that I quoted about Vancouver having the longest RT system in Canada was only for grade-separated rapid transit. The only 3 systems that were counted were the TTC subway/RT, Vancouver SkyTrain (and Canada Line), and the Montreal Metro.
I suppose technically Ottawa's LRT system will be added to that list in 2018, because it will be entirely grade-separated.
Surface LRT and BRT are definitely rapid transit, but I don't think they're at the same level as grade-separated, rail-based rapid transit (Subway, Metro, ICTS, grade-separated LRT).
Eglinton is a bit of a moving target when it comes to that though, because you have 2 sections that would qualify (the tunnel and the SRT refurb), but one that doesn't (Eglinton East). It's two metro lines linked by a non-Metro line, which I think is where the confusion comes in.
Now, if Metrolinx/the TTC make the sensible choice and elevate Eglinton East, then there would be no doubt that all of Eglinton would qualify.
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