[Adjei]

Toronto city staff release short list of revenue tools for new transit:

7.5 - 15% development charge hike
5-10% per litre fuel tax
50¢ - $1 per space parking levy
0.5 - 1% sales tax

http://www.blogto.com/city/2013/04/toronto_inches_closer_to_implementing_transit_taxes/

 

[gweed123]

Toronto city staff release short list of revenue tools for new transit:

7.5 - 15% development charge hike
5-10% per litre fuel tax
50¢ - $1 per space parking levy
0.5 - 1% sales tax

http://www.blogto.com/city/2013/04/toronto_inches_closer_to_implementing_transit_taxes/

Are these intended to work in conjunction with what Metrolinx is proposing (i.e. re-proposing the same stuff)? Or be a supplement to them, going above and beyond what Metrolinx hopes to raise?

 

[Adjei]

Are these intended to work in conjunction with what Metrolinx is proposing (i.e. re-proposing the same stuff)? Or be a supplement to them, going above and beyond what Metrolinx hopes to raise?

I believe these would be part of the input that the city of Toronto would give Metrolinx about the investment strategy for the Big Move.

 

[gweed123]

I believe these would be part of the input that the city of Toronto would give Metrolinx about the investment strategy for the Big Move.

Makes sense. I do wonder though if Metrolinx doesn't adopt some of those options, if Toronto will adopt those as a supplement. Should be interesting to see.

 

[drum118]

The Sate of Washington is going to raise taxes on fuel by 10 cents a gallon this year to cover transportation needs. A number of other states have or are going to raise taxes on fuel as well. There is a fair number of states refusing to raise fuel taxes while highway funds are drying up, let alone going to transit.

Parking tax should be $3-$5 a day (7/24/365) regardless what it is including business. If you want more parking at your home over your normal 1-2 car, you pay that tax as well.

You bring in the siding scale tax for homes that have more than the 2 car ratio with each additional car been added is tax at a higher rate.

10 cent per liter tax increase.

If Toronto wants more than what not on Metrolinx list, they can use the employment tax. I had to pay at City tax when I worked in Detroit while living in Farmington. If you live in Detroit, you didn't paid the city tax.

Add congestion tax for the city core area as well a few heavy traffic areas as well.

All on street parking to see a parking tax as well with no such thing as free parking.

I support the 1 cent sales tax increase so long its going to transit.

Toronto can also ask for a sale tax on top of the 1% and it could range anywhere from .01% to .05%. This could happen to other cities as well.

Another tax that can be looked at is an accident tax. By having an accident, you are causing a huge congestion as well disruption of transit service and movement of goods. Its causing lost time that cannot be replace. Some cities are trying to add this type of fee when the fire department is call to the scene along with other service.

 

[kEiThZ]

While I fully back the Premier on this, I am fearful that they may not have the political capital after all these scandals. It's a make or break situation for this government. I wonder how the Opposition will react when the Premier goes ahead with the fund-raising proposals of Metrolinx. It would give the Conservatives and the NDP the perfect excuse to bring down the government if they want.

And it'll be quite the stick that the Conservatives will get to wield come election time.

 

[TOareaFan]

^my biggest concern is where the money comes from (not necessarily personally but overall).

Statistics tell us that our saving rates are at historical lows and that personal debts are at historical highs......together, that suggests to me that the average Canadian (and presumably the average GTAer) is not currently ending each month wondering what to do with all their extra money......so these new taxes (oops, revenue tools) may just end up coming out of the economy in other areas and may not actually net much new money.

They may just be a great idea.....that we should have had 15 years ago!

 

[diminutive]

Statistics tell us that our saving rates are at historical lows and that personal debts are at historical highs......

Though, in so far as these new taxes were only used to fund infrastructure programs, it would function as a kind of forced savings? Money which before would have gone towards consumption would get targeted to capital projects.

Not sure how well that argument would go over politically....

 

[TOareaFan]

Though, in so far as these new taxes were only used to fund infrastructure programs, it would function as a kind of forced savings? Money which before would have gone towards consumption would get targeted to capital projects.

Not sure how well that argument would go over politically....

"Consumption".........though, generates tax in two ways.....consumption taxes ( G/P/H ST) and it supports employment ( which not only generates income tax it also reduces the number of folks drawing from the social safety net).

When we talk about things like a few cents per km toll, or a wee extra sales tax it all sounds very benign......when we say we are going to take a few billion out of the general economy it sounds a bit scary.

 

[rbt]

When we talk about things like a few cents per km toll, or a wee extra sales tax it all sounds very benign......when we say we are going to take a few billion out of the general economy it sounds a bit scary.

And yet it's still cheaper than doing the alternative which is nothing. The do nothing case for transportation in Toronto is really scary in 30 years with an economic impact of -$15B per year.

Done right, improving transportation in Toronto should result in more than enough economic growth to offset the set. Unfortunately, I don't have much confidence in Metrolinx doing it right since they want to avoid GO serving 416 customers at all costs.

 

[ssiguy2]

The premier, who is being put in a hell of a pickle, could always just tell Torontonians that the choice is theirs.

The could hold a binding plebisite for the entire GTA desrcibing EXACTLY what the taxes are, where the money will be spent, and EXACT timetable of each project..........no extensions. This would relieve the premier of having to make the decision for Torontonians and pay for it at the polls.

She can, quite fairly, that the choice is up to Toronto and if they refuse the tolls there will be no further funds coming from Queen's Park except the ones already underway. In other words, the money that has been announced stays but no further funds at all including after Eglinton is done, after that you are on your own. She can also freeze the operational support for the TTC/Metrolinx at current levels for at least 10 years.

She can legitimately say that the choice is up to you and what you decide you will live with for good or ill but the people of Ontario are not going to be on the hook for all Toronto's transit needs. If the GTA approves then great but if it is voted down she can turn to Metrolinx, when they inevitably ask for more money, don't come crying to us, you made your choice now live with it.

She is the premier of the entire province and is responsible to all the citizens {and tax payers} of Ontario and not just the annoited of Toronto. Despite Toronto believing that Ontario is simply a hinterland the reality is that the entire GTA still makes up less than half the province's population.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

She can (should?) definitely tell the citizens of Scarborough, North York and Etobicoke to do so.

AoD

 

[TOareaFan]

The premier, who is being put in a hell of a pickle, could always just tell Torontonians that the choice is theirs.

The could hold a binding plebisite for the entire GTA desrcibing EXACTLY what the taxes are, where the money will be spent, and EXACT timetable of each project..........no extensions. This would relieve the premier of having to make the decision for Torontonians and pay for it at the polls.

She can, quite fairly, that the choice is up to Toronto and if they refuse the tolls there will be no further funds coming from Queen's Park except the ones already underway. In other words, the money that has been announced stays but no further funds at all including after Eglinton is done, after that you are on your own. She can also freeze the operational support for the TTC/Metrolinx at current levels for at least 10 years.

She can legitimately say that the choice is up to you and what you decide you will live with for good or ill but the people of Ontario are not going to be on the hook for all Toronto's transit needs. If the GTA approves then great but if it is voted down she can turn to Metrolinx, when they inevitably ask for more money, don't come crying to us, you made your choice now live with it.

She is the premier of the entire province and is responsible to all the citizens {and tax payers} of Ontario and not just the annoited of Toronto. Despite Toronto believing that Ontario is simply a hinterland the reality is that the entire GTA still makes up less than half the province's population.

The bolded part will make that plebiscite un-winnable. I don't think there is a single project that will impact all regions/areas. So, inevitably, there will be regions/areas that will see the taxes and the schedule of improvements that will see that they will pay right away but any improvement to their lives/commutes is many years away.

Example....people in Milton screaming for all day GO trains are gonna vote for a plan that shows DRLs and subway extensions to Richmond Hill that they will contribute to right away but a 15 -20 year wait for what they want/need? Conversely, downtowners are gonna vote for a plan that shows buying the CP rail line and upgrading it to Milton while they are told to wait 10 years or so before a DRL gets going.

That sort of plebiscite is exactly what I would do if I did not want to go ahead with these new taxes.

 

[ssiguy2]

The problem is that Metrolinx has no credibility with the general public and unless the public sees the guarantees in black and white, they won't believe they will do what they say even if they get the money. They also need to know that a certain project will be done on a firm deadline or else they will think it's just another DRL promise.

If certain regions reject the proposal then they don't get any funding or have to pay in other ways. If, for example, the people of Halton don't support the fees but the city of Hamilton does then Metrolinx can alwyas raise their GO fares to the same level as someone coming from Hamilton............one way or another you will pay.

There is also nothing stopping Toronto from going it alone by a DVP/Gardiner toll that only tolls vehicles NOT registered in the City of Toronto..............make the 905 pay for them. God knows Torontonians would love getting free money and the 905ers couldn't do a damn thing about. Queen's Park couldn't do a thing as they are municaple roads and any mayor that implements it would probably win the next election.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

If certain regions reject the proposal then they don't get any funding or have to pay in other ways. If, for example, the people of Halton don't support the fees but the city of Hamilton does then Metrolinx can alwyas raise their GO fares to the same level as someone coming from Hamilton............one way or another you will pay.

And if the provincial MPP happens to be from the ruling party and is vulnerable to a challenger, what do you think will happen?

Queen's Park couldn't do a thing as they are municipal roads and any mayor that implements it would probably win the next election.

The province can legally upload or download assets/responsibilities to and from the municipalities - and I bet you if Toronto did something asymmetrical that, the next premier might very well invoke those powers. If you want to toll - implement the toll by distance.

AoD