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Juan_Lennon416 said:
As the days go by, it seems that an election is sooner than most people think ;)
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LOL. And tomorrow's always a day away! It's like GO's 15-year Big Move plan. Most of the projects that would be built in 15 years in 2008 (by 2023) will be built in 15 years in the 2013 revision (by 2028).
 
I very much doubt Queen's Park would take on Toronto if it used tolls for 905ers on the Gardiner or DVP.

If they tried to but Toronto needed the money to upgrade the Gardiner then what could they do? God knows Toronto doesn't have the money to fix the Gardiner and if they can't fix and Queen's Park demands it stay open then great, upload the highways to Queen's Park. That completely takes care of any upgrade bills for the Gardiner and all yearly operational/maintenace costs. Either way you cut, Toronto wins.
 
I think that the best way for Toronto improve its transit is increase the fees for non-Torontians, not just using road tolls, but through the TTC as well, which can be easily done once Presto is fully implemented.

For example, if the fare for residents of Toronto is $2.50, then the fare for North York, Scarborough, Etobicoke, York, and East York residents should be $4.00, while those living in 905 should pay $5.50 to use the TTC. These fares would more accurately reflect the extra burden that suburbanites place on TTC. Once they pay their fair share for the service they use, it will help ease the TTC financial woes, and maybe even help pay for TTC expansion as well.
 
Doady, by Torontonians, do you mean "people who travel within downtown" or if someone were to say, hop a GO train to Union and take a streetcar to the final destination, they would be penalized? There needs to be some kind of fare zone/by distance system in place, but charging people for using a service based of where their home mailing address regardless of origin/destination makes little sense to me.
 
doady said:
For example, if the fare for residents of Toronto is $2.50, then the fare for North York, Scarborough, Etobicoke, York, and East York residents should be $4.00, while those living in 905 should pay $5.50 to use the TTC. These fares would more accurately reflect the extra burden that suburbanites place on TTC. Once they pay their fair share for the service they use, it will help ease the TTC financial woes, and maybe even help pay for TTC expansion as well.
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I'm not sure why someone who has a 2-km commute within Scarborough should be paying more than someone who has a 4-km commute in old Toronto. Or why someone who uses East York subway station Woodbine would pay more than someone who used old City of Toronto station Coxwell.

Fare by distance I can see justification for (though it would be a nightmare to implement, especially on streetcars and buses), but I don't see it based on residency within Toronto.

And even though I can see a logic for those living in 905 to pay more (because it's Toronto taxpayers paying the extra $ to fund TTC) - I have no idea how you'd enforce this.
 
I'd set up a zone system where your pay a base fare of $2.00 and it would go up by 50 cents for each new zone you entered after the second zone. You could then make the flat cash fare $4.00 to encourage people to adopt the fare card.
 
What is the current "subsidy" that property taxpayers of Toronto pay for the city roads, Gardiner Expressway, and Don Valley Parkway? How much does the province put toward those same city roads, Gardiner Expressway, and Don Valley Parkway? How much do the drivers from outside the city put toward the city roads, Gardiner Expressway, and Don Valley Parkway?

I'm not including the 400-series of expressways and QEW since those come from the province's revenue.
 
doady said:
I think that the best way for Toronto improve its transit is increase the fees for non-Torontians, not just using road tolls, but through the TTC as well, which can be easily done once Presto is fully implemented.

For example, if the fare for residents of Toronto is $2.50, then the fare for North York, Scarborough, Etobicoke, York, and East York residents should be $4.00, while those living in 905 should pay $5.50 to use the TTC. These fares would more accurately reflect the extra burden that suburbanites place on TTC. Once they pay their fair share for the service they use, it will help ease the TTC financial woes, and maybe even help pay for TTC expansion as well.
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How much does it go up if you live in Manitoba? BC? If the price keeps going up based on domicile distance from NPS, it is quite possible a visitor from LA will be able to fly here on Porter cheaper than his TTC fare ;)
 
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doady said:
I think that the best way for Toronto improve its transit is increase the fees for non-Torontians, not just using road tolls, but through the TTC as well, which can be easily done once Presto is fully implemented.

For example, if the fare for residents of Toronto is $2.50, then the fare for North York, Scarborough, Etobicoke, York, and East York residents should be $4.00, while those living in 905 should pay $5.50 to use the TTC. These fares would more accurately reflect the extra burden that suburbanites place on TTC. Once they pay their fair share for the service they use, it will help ease the TTC financial woes, and maybe even help pay for TTC expansion as well.
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A unified regional zone fare system would do that exact same thing, without being so politically toxic. If most 905ers are bound for downtown, there would be little difference in a unified fare system vs an 'outsider tax' on people using the TTC.

It's under my system map, but you can see the fare zone system I'd like to see here: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/43869799/GTA System Map - To Scale_small.jpg

As you can see, Toronto from the Lake to the Humber to the 401 to Vic Park would be Zone 1, with a base fare of $2.50. Zone 2NW would be from the Humber to Hurontario, up to the 407 and then 7, then back to the 407 to Yonge. Zone 2NE would be from Yonge, along the 407 to the Toronto-Durham line, down to the lake. This would be an extra $1 for local rapid transit (BRT, LRT, or subway), or an extra $1.50 for express rapid transit (GO REX, GO, express BRT routes like the 407 Transitway). The fare zones radiate out from there, with a total of 5 zone rings, for a maximum fare of $8.50 using express rapid transit (unless you're travelling from the Rural zones, in which case the fare is route-dependent).

My point is that there are other ways of ensuring that people pay for the length they travel, instead of just slapping a surcharge on anyone coming in from north of Steeles, west of the 427, or east of the Rouge.

$2.50 base fare and unlimited travel on local transit, $1 for each additional zone via local rapid transit, $1.50 for each additional zone via express rapid transit. Simple, easy to figure out, and I think much easier to swallow politically than making it a 416 vs 905 issue.
 
W. K. Lis said:
What is the current "subsidy" that property taxpayers of Toronto pay for the city roads, Gardiner Expressway, and Don Valley Parkway? How much does the province put toward those same city roads, Gardiner Expressway, and Don Valley Parkway? How much do the drivers from outside the city put toward the city roads, Gardiner Expressway, and Don Valley Parkway?

I'm not including the 400-series of expressways and QEW since those come from the province's revenue.
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Semantics first, a Municipality cannot subsidize a road they built and maintain because they already own it 100%.

I suppose you are proposing a plan wherein non citizens of Toronto would have to pay to use roads within the boundaries of Toronto. If so, are you ready for the reciprocal retaliation that will surely follow?
 
spider said:
Semantics first, a Municipality cannot subsidize a road they built and maintain because they already own it 100%.

I suppose you are proposing a plan wherein non citizens of Toronto would have to pay to use roads within the boundaries of Toronto. If so, are you ready for the reciprocal retaliation that will surely follow?
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The city owns the TTC! Yet it is subsidized. Except that the fare is a user fee to use the TTC. No drivers pay a user fee for using the city roads, whether it be gas, hybrid, or electric.
 
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W. K. Lis said:
The city owns the TTC! Yet it is subsidized. Except that the fare is a user fee to use the TTC. What drivers paying a user fee for using the roads, even if it not 100%?
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I am not sure I understand, but I would think that the gas tax is a user fee analogous to the TTC fare.
 
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