[AlvinofDiaspar]

Exactly TOareafan. Thank you for making that point. We have been having this debate on which level of government should be "funding" transit (i.e. wear the hat of, and getting the scorn for having to raise funds for it) and running around in circles. Is it any wonder we can't get anything built?

Stop with the excuses, grow some balls and get the job done. Building transit cost money, what's so surprising about that - and why shouldn't Toronto and the region pay for it? We need it, we can afford it and frankly we are the loudest about how transit is our god-given right. Time to demonstrate that. Who cares if we have to pay a little extra to extend a subway line where the demand is justifiable? Who cares if one line with marginal benefit doesn't make it on the "priority list" on the first cut? Was opposition to all that worth handing the platter to those whose ultimate position is no new transit, period?

AoD

 

[rbt]

I'm no expert of German tax system but I already said earlier that they do tax more

Significantly. No Canadian will be moving their primary residence to Germany as a personal tax reduction strategy.

Anguilla on the other hand is a great tax haven; not such a great place to live though.

 

[Electrify]

For those pointing to the US, it is a classic case of the grass being greener on the other side. Yes, the feds do pay into transit there, but with the exception of a few major cities it is seen as a social service. The individualist outlook of Americans expects them to drive themselves, and not have the government do it for them (on government maintained roads, though more of them are tolled than here). In many cities, buses and even subways are dirty and even dangerous to be on.

You can also see how their car focus has impacted urban planning. The worst example of sprawl I've seen in the Toronto area is The Golden Mile, and this includes the 905. In many US metro areas, such wasteful land use is the norm.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

For those pointing to the US, it is a classic case of the grass being greener on the other side. Yes, the feds do pay into transit there, but with the exception of a few major cities it is seen as a social service. The individualist outlook of Americans expects them to drive themselves, and not have the government do it for them (on government maintained roads, though more of them are tolled than here). In many cities, buses and even subways are dirty and even dangerous to be on.

Electrify isn't exaggerating at all. Canadians don't realize how strong individualism is in the United States. On a transit forum based in the United States, some members were strongly averse to the idea of having government control public transit. They thought that it would give the gov't too much control over people's movements. Of course, they were outliers. But the fact that this was used as a legitimate argument against the use of public transit is really telling about American culture.

 

[BurlOak]

Well, to my understanding
The province downloaded the DVP and Gardiner to the city . . .

Actually, that is not correct. The DVP has always belonged to Toronto and so did the elevated portion of the Gardiner. Only the portion West of Humber was transfered from Province to City.

IMO, either DVP and Gardiner should be uploaded to province, or ownership should stay as is. The way it was made no sense.

 

[innsertnamehere]

All freeways should be provincially owned.. There is no reason the 404 should change names when it travels over the 401. It should be the 404 all the way down to the Gardner, which should really be the QEW.

 

[TOareaFan]

All freeways should be provincially owned.. There is no reason the 404 should change names when it travels over the 401. It should be the 404 all the way down to the Gardner, which should really be the QEW.

Is the DVP/404 the only example of continuous freeways that change name ad they cross the 401?

 

[gweed123]

Is the DVP/404 the only example of continuous freeways that change name ad they cross the 401?

Well, you do have the 410 and 403 which were originally intended as separate freeways, but have kind of morphed into 1 continuous highway.

And you have Highway 400 and Black Creek Dr. Technically the 400 extends south of the 401 to Jane St, but for all intents and purposes it ends at the 401, and continues as Black Creek Dr.

 

[GenerationW]

And let's not forget they did commit what, 8B in for capital transit spending in the City of Toronto alone either.

Yes they deserve some credit for that. Too bad Toronto dd a piss-poor job of prioritizing projects.

Agreed. It still seems like we're waiting to have an adult conversation on transit in this province. Sad.

Joe Mihevic calling for an adult conversation -- that's a good one.

 

[gweed123]

Yes they deserve some credit for that. Too bad Toronto dd a piss-poor job of prioritizing projects.

Yup. This whole thing is making Ottawa's flip flop on their transit plan look like nothing. At least Ottawa got the ball rolling within a couple months of the new mayor being installed and didn't look back. The plan that's under construction now is more or less the same plan proposed under O'Brien, albeit with a different alignment through downtown (changed for geotechnical and cost reasons, not because of anything political).

At the time, it was definitely one of the two biggest 'late-inning' cancellations in Ontario history (the other being Eglinton West).

 

[BurlOak]

Well, you do have the 410 and 403 which were originally intended as separate freeways, but have kind of morphed into 1 continuous highway.

And you have Highway 400 and Black Creek Dr. Technically the 400 extends south of the 401 to Jane St, but for all intents and purposes it ends at the 401, and continues as Black Creek Dr.

Its a bit different, but the extension of highway 427 north of Highway 7 (called Regional Road 99) is owned by York Region, although many probably think it is still 427. This occured because the province was slow in fulfililng their promise to extned 427 and York wanted to develop the area. It will become 427 when it finally gets extended up to Major Mac.

 

[calimehtar]

And to the argument that we should follow the US funding model - I assume it's true that the US federal government funds public transportation and the Canadian federal government does not. But various jurisdictions are still required to implement various 'revenue tools' to pay for public transit.

The LA area implemented a .5% sales tax to fund transit expansion
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/26/us/26transit.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

Interestingly NYC is issuing bonds on future property tax increases.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7_Subway_Extension

Seattle uses something that looks to me like a vehicle registration tax, plus sales tax
http://seattletransitblog.com/2013/05/02/explainer-2014-metro-budget-cuts/

 

[sjc]

Is the DVP/404 the only example of continuous freeways that change name ad they cross the 401?

Does the part of the 427 that turns into "Highway 27" count?

 

[W. K. Lis]

Does the part of the 427 that turns into "Highway 27" count?

All of the non-400 series of highways within Toronto are under Toronto's jurisdiction. Highways 2, 5, 11, 11A, 27, 48, and 50 come to mind.

 

[datamouse]

All of the non-400 series of highways within Toronto are under Toronto's jurisdiction. Highways 2, 5, 11, 11A, 27, 48, and 50 come to mind.

More fair to say they don't even exist anymore as "highways" within Toronto with the exception of 27 and 2A keeping their names.