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What would happen if you don't pay your taxes? You think the government wouldn't come after you with guns? Ever heard of a crime called tax evasion?

No, Smitherman didn't do it personally. However, he was a government official and I hold him responsible for the policies of the government.

well, you implied that smitherman literally did those things to you which is why you wouldn't vote for him. also, according to your twisted philosophy, you would never re-elect someone because they're part of the government which put a gun to your head and took your ten grand, "literally!". i guess as soon as the person you vote for becomes part of the government and they did not abolish taxes and putting guns to people's heads, you automatically hate them. why are you even interested in voting? do you believe that rob ford will abolish all property taxes? i got news for you, he's not! he's just as bad as everyone else.


If you define homophobe this way, then I'd say the vast majority of the people in this province would be homophobic according to you.

even if a vast majority of people in the province were homophobic, it does not mean homophobia is acceptable. just like if the vast majority of people in the province were racist, it wouldn't mean racism is acceptable.
 
well, you implied that smitherman literally did those things to you which is why you wouldn't vote for him. also, according to your twisted philosophy, you would never re-elect someone because they're part of the government which put a gun to your head and took your ten grand, "literally!". i guess as soon as the person you vote for becomes part of the government and they did not abolish taxes and putting guns to people's heads, you automatically hate them. why are you even interested in voting? do you believe that rob ford will abolish all property taxes? i got news for you, he's not! he's just as bad as everyone else.

even if a vast majority of people in the province were homophobic, it does not mean homophobia is acceptable. just like if the vast majority of people in the province were racist, it wouldn't mean racism is acceptable.

As I said, I haven't decided to vote for Ford yet. I only decided that I am not going to vote for Smitherman.

There are plenty of government officials who disagree with the government's policies to some degree, but powerless to change them. Smitherman wasn't one of them or at least he hasn't shown that. And there's always a degree to things. Nothing is black and white. Rob Ford is certainly not a libertarian, but he is not a socialist either. I am still interested in what services he is going to cut and that's what i will be watching for the next 5 weeks.
 
I think anyone who has already decided to vote for her will still end up putting their mark next to her name on the ballot regardless of her "quiting".

Also, Rob Ford has the highest second choice number (close to 20% of decided voters). I am not sure who would benefit more from Thomson quitting.
 
From The Star opinion page this morning:

http://www.thestar.com/opinion/edit...time-for-pantalone-rossi-thomson-to-quit?bn=1

Hepburn: Time for Pantalone, Rossi, Thomson to quit (Bob Hepburn, Editorial Page)

Back in 2000, consumer advocate Ralph Nader was the Green party’s nominee for U.S. president, running against Al Gore for the Democrats and George Bush for the Republicans.

Despite pleas from friends to withdraw because his no-hope candidacy could hurt Gore’s chances of beating Bush, Nader campaigned tirelessly.

In the battleground state of Florida, Nader received 97,488 votes — and the undying anger of Democrats who claimed his bid drained votes from Gore, who lost Florida by just 537 votes to Bush.

That narrow and controversial victory in Florida secured the U.S. presidency for Bush.

We all know what happened next — Bush went on to become the worst U.S. president ever.

That same election scenario is taking place right now in Toronto.

Here, a trio of candidates with no chance of winning the Oct. 25 mayoral race may contribute heavily to the election of Rob Ford, whom the candidates themselves claim would be “scary” and a disaster for Toronto if he wins.

Because of that, Joe Pantalone, Rocco Rossi and Sarah Thomson should withdraw immediately and let Ford and George Smitherman, the two clear front-runners, fight it out by themselves in the last month of the election.

If they refuse to end their ego-fuelled campaigns, which is most probable, then these also-ran candidates would be partly to blame for helping Ford become mayor if he beats Smitherman.

None of these three candidates has really connected with voters.

After nine months of non-stop campaigning, all three are still hovering between 7 and 13 per cent voter support.

At this stage, Smitherman has about 25 per cent backing in the polls and is the only serious challenger for Ford. If the opposition to Ford is to coalesce around a lone candidate, that person will most likely be Smitherman.

That’s critical because Ford’s popularity, which now stands at more than 42 per cent, may have peaked.

A major new poll to be released in the next few days is expected to show he has fallen slightly, with more than one-third of voters still undecided.

For the most part, Pantalone, Rossi and Thomson have all run serious campaigns of which they can be proud. They have outlined their positions in more than 50 public debates and countless speeches and press interviews.

But they’re delusional if they believe they can win.

All of them cling to the false hope that what happened to David Miller in 2003 will happen to them. In that election, Miller and John Tory trailed Barbara Hall badly in the polls on Labour Day. On voting day, though, Miller won with 299,385 votes to 263,189 for Tory. Hall finished a distant third.

Two other also-rans, John Nunziata and Tom Jakobek, embarrassed themselves by getting less than 6 per cent of the votes.

All three of this year’s “major” also-rans will also wind up embarrassing themselves.

In Thomson’s case, can anyone figure out why she thinks she has a chance of winning? She gets media play because, honestly, she’s the only woman in the race, not because she’s qualified. Her only political experience was an unsuccessful bid for a city council seat — in Hamilton at that.

Rossi, too, has failed to win over voters, but says he’s no “quitter.”

For months, he conducted a decent campaign, but in recent days has started to implode, with foolish plans to bury highways under the city and an appallingly bad series of ads that feature tough-talking Tony Soprano-like voices extolling his virtues.

None of it has worked. Even the centre-right voters Rossi had targeted are ignoring him.

Pantalone, whose campaign theme should be “If you liked David Miller, you’ll like me,” is praying NDP voters and union workers will suddenly love him on election day.

The reverse is more likely, with such voters, in their eagerness to stop Ford, telling Pantalone they support him, but then secretly casting ballots for Smitherman.

It’s too late to remove their names from the ballots.

But it’s not too late for Pantalone, Rossi and Thomson to announce they are no longer candidates and stop all campaigning.

By doing so, they will save their financial backers from wasting money on expensive campaign ads that are about to hit Toronto newspapers and airwaves. They will also save themselves from huge debts that could take years to pay off.

They might even save themselves from being branded forever as Toronto’s own version of Ralph Nader.
 
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Tony's must think alike -- TonyV, you beat me to it! I was gonna post that article. It was a great read, and something I think is entirely necessary for the greater good of this city. I can see Sarah Thomson jumping onto the Smitherman bandwagon most easily out of the bottom 3. This could be a nice boost for George, since she's got lots of moolah $$. =D
 
^^^
.. and I believe that the media is only starting. The Globe today, from Marcus Gee:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...uy-who-gets-his-numbers-wrong/article1719778/

Can we trust Rob Ford, a guy who gets his numbers wrong?

This week’s opinion poll showed that Rob Ford is not only the most popular candidate for mayor, he is also the most trusted. But can you really trust a guy who says so much that is wrong and untrue? Consider just a few examples.

- When he talks about overspending at city hall, Mr. Ford often cites the controversial new bike lane on Jarvis Street. He says it cost $6-million. The actual cost was $59,000, $6,000 less than the city’s $65,000 estimate. The money was used to install bike-lane signs, paint new lines on the pavement and remove the overhead signals for Jarvis’s old reversing traffic lane.

- Mr. Ford says city council voted to spend $360-million to tear down the Gardiner Expressway. No such decision has been made. City council voted in July, 2008, only to launch a study into the future of the elevated expressway. The study was expected to cost about $8-million. Mayor David Miller has made it clear he would like to take down the Gardiner east of Jarvis and one city estimate put the cost at about $360-million, but that is only one option under study and council has never voted to approve it.

- Mr. Ford says that under Toronto’s “tax, tax, tax, spend, spend, spend†government, “residents of this city have been hit with a property-tax increase of 5 per cent every year.†After all the waste that taxpayers see, he said at a debate on Tuesday night, “it just infuriates them when they turn around and have to pay a 5-per-cent property tax.†In fact, homeowners’ property taxes went up 2.9 per cent this year, 4 per cent last year and 3.75 per cent in 2008. There has never been a property tax increase of 5 per cent since Mr. Ford was first elected in 2000.

- Mr. Ford said on CBC Radio’s Metro Morning this week that in 2000 the city had a $6.5-billion budget and “now we have almost a $12-billion budget.†In fact, the city’s operating budget has risen from about $6-billion in 2000 to $9.2-billion today. It reaches almost $12-billion only if you add in the capital budget, which pays for road repairs, transit expansion and other projects. Capital spending was not included in Mr. Ford’s 2000 figure, so his comparison exaggerates the growth in spending.

- In controversial remarks about immigration last month, Mr. Ford said that Toronto’s official plan forecasts that a million new people will flood into the city over the next 10 years. “I think it’s more important that we take care of the people now before we start bringing in more,†he said. In fact, the plan says that Toronto will grow by 537,000 residents by 2031. Greater Toronto is expected to grow by 2.7 million people in that same period, but that includes the whole region, including Halton, Peel, Durham and York.

These are not just sloppy mistakes or slips of the tongue. Mr. Ford makes these untrue statements over and over at debates and campaign appearances. His rivals for mayor have corrected him repeatedly in public, but he keeps on trotting them out as fact. Much of what he says falls into the category of “truthiness,†defined by television comedian Stephen Colbert as what you want the truth to be, not what it actually is.

The rise of Rob Ford to the leading spot in the opinion polls is, sadly, no joke. The Etobicoke councillor is just weeks away from becoming mayor of Canada’s biggest city. When a man who says he would run the city like a business repeatedly gets his figures wrong, you have to wonder about his fitness for the job. When he brazenly repeats his errors, you have to wonder about his judgment.

If we say we trust public figures, we usually mean that we believe what they say is true. By that measure, Mr. Ford is the most untrustworthy candidate for mayor.
 
Tony's must think alike -- TonyV, you beat me to it! I was gonna post that article. It was a great read, and something I think is entirely necessary for the greater good of this city. I can see Sarah Thomson jumping onto the Smitherman bandwagon most easily out of the bottom 3. This could be a nice boost for George, since she's got lots of moolah $$. =D

And there's so much more, bigtony22127. The Globe, yesterday, featured a writer who was complaining about the lack of focus, in the current campaign. So little mention of job creation or Toronto's economy. I just hope that there are enough literate people around to read this stuff.

It isn't over!

(to MetroMan: take heart).
 
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Every new poll since January has seen Smitherman's support fall a bit further. He started off at 44% in the winter, fell to 34% in the spring, hit 28% in the summer and the latest poll now has him at 21%. It is very unlikely this trend is going to reverse itself. The more people see of Smitherman the less they like him. Even if Pantalone's current growth stalls, Joe should still be ahead in the polls within a couple of weeks.
 
Every new poll since January has seen Smitherman's support fall a bit further. He started off at 44% in the winter, fell to 34% in the spring, hit 28% in the summer and the latest poll now has him at 21%. It is very unlikely this trend is going to reverse itself. The more people see of Smitherman the less they like him. Even if Pantalone's current growth stalls, Joe should still be ahead in the polls within a couple of weeks.

I'm not so sure that's true re:Smitherman. I think it's a case of his campaign not doing enough to tell people what he's all about. So as others have released their proposals (as absurd as some are) people are becoming more attracted to those. It sounds to me like Smitherman has been purposely holding out. I think he wants to make a big move in October while everyone else has little left to pull out of their bag. In a way, I think it's a smart move. Considering most provincial and federal elections aren't much more than 6 weeks long, he's decided to campaign like he's still at the province. He knows that people's opinions can be changed in just a few weeks. He just has to give them a reason to change them.

Obviously, all of that is based on what I suspect his strategy might be. For all I know, he's content maintaining the status quo that got him this far.
 
Every new poll since January has seen Smitherman's support fall a bit further. He started off at 44% in the winter, fell to 34% in the spring, hit 28% in the summer and the latest poll now has him at 21%. It is very unlikely this trend is going to reverse itself. The more people see of Smitherman the less they like him. Even if Pantalone's current growth stalls, Joe should still be ahead in the polls within a couple of weeks.

Actually, every candidate's poll numbers have risen and fallen in direct proportion to their ability to capture headlines.
 
I think Smitherman can win if he builds on the attitude he showed in the last debate. It was a big shift for his campaign.

This note about the next poll from Hepburn's editorial is interesting:

A major new poll to be released in the next few days is expected to show (Ford) has fallen slightly, with more than one-third of voters still undecided.

If the undecided percentage is back up to 33%, that's significant.
 
The trouble would be that people may not hear or read everything that a candidate is for or against. One maybe for lower taxes, but against cutting certain services that they use, to lower the taxes, for example. They just hear "lower taxes" and nothing else.
 
Every new poll since January has seen Smitherman's support fall a bit further. He started off at 44% in the winter, fell to 34% in the spring, hit 28% in the summer and the latest poll now has him at 21%. It is very unlikely this trend is going to reverse itself. The more people see of Smitherman the less they like him. Even if Pantalone's current growth stalls, Joe should still be ahead in the polls within a couple of weeks.

I'm not so sure that's true re:Smitherman. I think it's a case of his campaign not doing enough to tell people what he's all about. So as others have released their proposals (as absurd as some are) people are becoming more attracted to those. It sounds to me like Smitherman has been purposely holding out. I think he wants to make a big move in October while everyone else has little left to pull out of their bag. In a way, I think it's a smart move. Considering most provincial and federal elections aren't much more than 6 weeks long, he's decided to campaign like he's still at the province. He knows that people's opinions can be changed in just a few weeks. He just has to give them a reason to change them.

Obviously, all of that is based on what I suspect his strategy might be. For all I know, he's content maintaining the status quo that got him this far.

... I tend to side with jn_12 on this. The old "keeping the powder dry" is what is going on here, and Smitherman is good at that. Time will tell.

The trouble would be that people may not hear or read everything that a candidate is for or against. One maybe for lower taxes, but against cutting certain services that they use, to lower the taxes, for example. They just hear "lower taxes" and nothing else.

And further, what is very scary is what is not being discussed yet - job creation strategies and strengthening our economy. The candidates keeping punching emotional hot buttons. It's a sad reflection on the electorate that they only respond to these piffles; no one is raising the bigger issues of competitiveness and attracting/growing wealth. It's nuts.
 
I think Smitherman can win if he builds on the attitude he showed in the last debate. It was a big shift for his campaign.

If the undecided percentage is back up to 33%, that's significant.

George can still win this if he mounts a full-scale and smartly focussed STOP FORD campaign, and emerges in the next two weeks as the clear second place candidate. There's still five weeks to go -- that's longer than the duration of most provincial elections. And you're right, there's a lot of people who haven't completely made up their minds. Including those who've been identified as supporting Ford.
 
FYI.. Half of Smitherman's campaign pretty much bailed on him... show's the type of people on his campaign... just jumping on and off the bandwagon, no one really there to actually do good for the city...

Rocco Rossi on the other hand ;)

I think Smitherman should drop out and back the other Centrist Candidate.

Most of Smitherman's supporters are provincial card holding liberals, and those that are connected to their MPPs...

very few, if any independants left...

Sarah Thomson is a Tory/independant, half or even more will Jump on Rossi's camp.

Pantalone should not have even run.
All his constituents hate him.
 

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