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One thing I'm certain of--Metroman would make an appalling mayor! Too impressionable.

How is RF dangerous? He's just a fat bastard from Etobicoke, with deep Toronto roots.... The difference between Stephen Harper and Ford? The PM is dull while Mayor Ford is entertaining! I prefer to be amused than put to sleep by Canadian politics.
 
Here, finally, is that Toronto Star poll:

http://www.visioncritical.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/2010.09.24_Toronto.pdf

502 people surveyed from September 14 to 15. Globe certainly scooped Star, they had 700 or so polled from September 14 to 16, and it came out on the 19. I guess Nanos works on the weekend, and Angus-Reid doesn't.

The poll also has no breakdown by area of the city, by gender ... it's really a very pedestrian poll compared to the Nanos one. No wonder the Star buried it!
 
How is RF dangerous? He's just a fat bastard from Etobicoke, with deep Toronto roots.... The difference between Stephen Harper and Ford? The PM is dull while Mayor Ford is entertaining! I prefer to be amused than put to sleep by Canadian politics.
He simply doesn't seem to understand the issues. He's talking about cancelling the new streetcar contract, which is just bizarre. The new LRTs carry about 4 times as many people as a bus, and last twice as long. We'd need to buy 800 buses now, and another 800 in 15 years; and build 4 new bus garages. That's $800 million now and another $400 million later. It doesn't even save much money ... and you will have 4 times the number of operators. The whole thing is just bizarre in how poorly thought out it is.

And then there is his other talk over the years of cutting transit service. Wasn't the the one speaking out about not providing evening and night bus service a couple of years ago?

It's also bizarre that he's cancelled the portion of the Eglinton RT that is in a subway tunnel. By his own philosophy, that should stay, and then you have to change to a bus at Don Mills Road. For someone who is touting subway over streetcar, it seems bizarre he's going to cancel a subway that is supposed to start construction in a few months.
 
The Star Angus-Reid poll has some pretty terrible questions - "Do you support expanding the subway system and reducing the number or get rid of streetcars?" That's awfully leading. Even people who love streetcars would probably answer with a "Yes, but..."
 
The Star Angus-Reid poll has some pretty terrible questions - "Do you support expanding the subway system and reducing the number or get rid of streetcars?" That's awfully leading. Even people who love streetcars would probably answer with a "Yes, but..."


do you enjoy beating your wife? only answer yes or no. ;)
 
The Star Angus-Reid poll has some pretty terrible questions - "Do you support expanding the subway system and reducing the number or get rid of streetcars?" That's awfully leading. Even people who love streetcars would probably answer with a "Yes, but..."

That's the first thing I noticed, too. Angus-Reid is a respected polling company, but that question makes it seem like a Ford campaign push poll by suggesting that keeping streetcars prevents subway expansion.

"Do you support providing homes for orphans if it means killing kittens?"
 
I don't find Ford amusing at all. Not exactly a good reason to see him elected.

The guy has made promises he can't keep, and appears to be clueless with respect to every dollar figure he has cited. If he's going to claim fiscal responsibility he should at least properly inform himself of the actual cost of things (y'know, the price of bike lanes, total city budget - those kinds of details).
 
There's a "Ford is dangerous" lawn sign?

The problem here is that the anti-Ford crowd is only harping about how Ford is dangerous. That doesn't solve the problem that is the fracture of his opposition. I'm guilty of that as well. We just don't know yet who would have the best chance to defeat Ford. Is it Smitherman who is in 2nd but losing support? Is it Pantalone who is by definition, the Anti-Ford? Is it Rossi who appeals to Ford's base?

Hopefully the choice becomes clear over the next couple of weeks.

MetroMan (as TonyV draws a giant breath) -- I read you well, and I was going through the same mental machinations last week, until I finally got off the fence and decided in favour of Smitherman.

(Ford being merely an offence whom I had already eliminated, of course) --
1st elimination : Thomson - she is going for name recognition and has no way of winning - I won't waste my vote there.
2nd elimination : Rossi - DUH, it was that tunnel idea.
3rd elimination : (obviously) 'nice guy' Joe - one of the messages we are getting is that the status quo won't do. He's nice, and competent, and belongs in his ward, as Councillor Joe.

Leaving Smitherman, tough guy, furious, some flaws (chiefly, impatience), but overall the best candidate, and clearly a guy who knows Toronto and who understands the value of keeping up our fabulous momentum (uhm, rather than killing that momentum as you-know-who obviously wants to do) -- and who has the most credibility. I have said it before: George has made errors, but he has the ability to learn from them.

So I got off the fence and ordered my Smitherman lawn sign ....

Don't doubt me, this entire race can change. That guy, uhm, Ford ... I think there is a lot more ammo that can be summoned up against him. Where there's smoke, there's fire. And the journals (Star, Globe) are only starting.
 
The problem here is that the anti-Ford crowd is only harping about how Ford is dangerous. That doesn't solve the problem that is the fracture of his opposition. I'm guilty of that as well. We just don't know yet who would have the best chance to defeat Ford. Is it Smitherman who is in 2nd but losing support? Is it Pantalone who is by definition, the Anti-Ford? Is it Rossi who appeals to Ford's base?

This is, nearly, where I was going earlier...it is not enough for any candidate to simply say "don't vote for Ford" or for a group of candidates to say "he is dangerous....vote for anyone but Ford"....

....at some point one, or more, of the other candidates has to come up with a platform that resonates with more voters than Ford's does. So far all the polls have confirmed is that more voters like what they hear from Ford than they do from any candidate....telling them they are "dumb" for that won't "stop Ford"....giving them something else to like better will.
 
MetroMan (as TonyV draws a giant breath) -- I read you well, and I was going through the same mental machinations last week, until I finally got off the fence and decided in favour of Smitherman.

(Ford being merely an offence whom I had already eliminated, of course) --
1st elimination : Thomson - she is going for name recognition and has no way of winning - I won't waste my vote there.
2nd elimination : Rossi - DUH, it was that tunnel idea.
3rd elimination : (obviously) 'nice guy' Joe - one of the messages we are getting is that the status quo won't do. He's nice, and competent, and belongs in his ward, as Councillor Joe.

Leaving Smitherman, tough guy, furious, some flaws (chiefly, impatience), but overall the best candidate, and clearly a guy who knows Toronto and who understands the value of keeping up our fabulous momentum (uhm, rather than killing that momentum as you-know-who obviously wants to do) -- and who has the most credibility. I have said it before: George has made errors, but he has the ability to learn from them.

So I got off the fence and ordered my Smitherman lawn sign ....

Don't doubt me, this entire race can change. That guy, uhm, Ford ... I think there is a lot more ammo that can be summoned up against him. Where there's smoke, there's fire. And the journals (Star, Globe) are only starting.

You have to order them? Do you need to pay? I thought they just come and ask for permission to put it on your lawn.

Anyway, Ford aside, I want to understand why do you think "the status quo won't do" and what you think the new mayor (let's say Smitherman) should change.
 
Something odd about Pantalone: There were no volunteers at the debate today. Smitherman and Rossi had tables with buttons and flyers and volunteers handing out those in the crowd. Ford had a smaller table with flyers. Pants and Sarah had nothing. Joe's running his campaign as if he were an incumbent with no real challenger. He's presented no real changes from the status quo to address the concerns that voters are responding to.
 
I said what I said because Rocco has become nearly as idiotic as Ford. With his tunneling of the Spadina Express (a 1960s proposal), his call for cutting council in half (cause less representation is better democracy, right?), and his recent mafioso ad campaign (I'm Italian and take particular offense to this pathetic strategy), he is far from the right candidate to run this city. Not to mention he's polling LOWEST among the 5 in the polls -- below even Sarah Thomson it seems -- why would Thomson go on and support the losing candidate? If you actually want to stop Ford, her best bet it to join the 2nd or 3rd placed candidate, not the last.

I agree, she makes no sense at all if she's planning to support the least popular candidate. Rossi is just not registering with the public, so to give him your support, is just pointless. It only helps Ford maintain his place, so if she indeed wants to stop him, why would she back Rossi? At this point, I think Smitherman might be the only choice.
 
You have to order them? Do you need to pay? I thought they just come and ask for permission to put it on your lawn.

Anyway, Ford aside, I want to understand why do you think "the status quo won't do" and what you think the new mayor (let's say Smitherman) should change.

To get a lawn sign, simply contact the George Smitherman campaign; that's easy, just google George Smitherman and his entire website comes up.

The status quo (meaning Joe) won't do, for me, because of what I perceive to be the next big battle facing council: tighter scrutiny of the budget. A tougher approach (Smitherman's) really is appropriate, as far as I am concerned, and that is part of the package that Smitherman is selling.

Yes, I am now officially a George Smitherman supporter.
 
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Another jab at Ford via an article on Flaherty:
Fiorito: Flaherty will get us nowhere
http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/article/865585--fiorito-flaherty-will-get-us-nowhere
Jim Flaherty, the federal minister of finance, said on CBC radio the other day that he was endorsing Rob Ford for mayor because he thinks it is time that Toronto got its financial house in order.

I am tempted to tell Jim Flaherty, in capital letters, to keep his big mouth shut and not to meddle in the affairs of this town, where he neither lives, nor works, nor holds municipal office.

I will restrain myself.

I will merely point out that if Toronto is in financial trouble, it is in large part because of the role Jim Flaherty played as the bloody cleaver in the hands of Butcher Harris.

The specifics:

Jim Flaherty was in the Harris government when amalgamation was rammed down our throats. We were told it would save a lot of money. The reverse has been painfully true.

Jim Flaherty was in the Harris government when Ontario Housing — a portfolio in a state of utter physical disrepair — was dumped onto this city without the corresponding compensation.

That costs us $300 million a year.

Jim Flaherty was in the Harris government when the Eglinton subway was cancelled and the hole filled in, and worse, when overall transit funding was slashed.

That costs us $250 million a year.

Jim Flaherty was in the Harris government when welfare rates were cut by 20 per cent, and when this city was saddled with the cost of social services administration.

That costs us $150 million a year.

I could add that Jim Flaherty, as a member of the Harris government, played a part in other cuts to ambulance, police, roads and public health.

But why pile on?

Let’s just say Jim Flaherty has participated in policies that have cost this city $7 billion in total since amalgamation.

If our financial house is not in order, why might that be? Could it be, perhaps, that Jim Flaherty has had a grip on Toronto’s neck for a very long time?

Is it not — and I do not choose these words lightly — both hypocritical and cynical to criticize us because we have been unable to catch our breath?

More recently, Jim Flaherty is the finance minister in a federal government that every year takes billions more from this city in taxes than it sends us in return.

And most recently of all, Jim Flaherty helped to saddle this city with the costs associated with the G20 fiasco, and yet his government refuses to act quickly to compensate all those small businesses that lost money each and every day Toronto was turned into an armed camp.

Has Jim Flaherty’s pal Rob Ford — and Ford is a millionaire, by the way — pushed to have the federal government speed up the compensation process and help the little guy out of a jam?

I didn’t think so.

Here’s something even more curious:

Rob Ford — he is Jim Flaherty’s man — says he doesn’t want any more immigrants in Toronto because we can’t take care of the people we have.

You might not think that such a remark is code for something pale and nasty, but if I were a recent immigrant, I’d be offended.

Better to remember that Jim Flaherty is the finance minister in a federal government that has power over immigration matters, and yet the federal government is unwilling to provide the support Rob Ford says this city does not have.

Makes my head spin.

Let me get back to my original point in its simplest form: If Toronto is to get its financial house in order, why did Jim Flaherty pillage the house in the first place?
 
Yes, I am now officially a George Smitherman supporter.
Great ... but please, when he does something daft, don't defend him to the bitter end like the Ford supporters do.

For example, I've generally supported Miller - but I've called his anti-airport plans daft at every opportunity.
 

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