[archanfel]

Well Smitherman hasn't released his numbers yet. They come out next week. Once they come out, you can scrutinize them all you want. (I'm willing to bet they add up better than Ford's though. People have been poking holes in his numbers for weeks).

And what do health premiums (OMG not a tax to help with our health care!) have to do with cleaning up city hall and limiting its spending? Or are you equating health care with new streetcars?

Well, if you argue that way, then Rob Ford's numbers are not out yet. Both of them have made promises (very similar ones in fact), except we know Rob Ford is going to cut services whereas we don't know how Smitherman is going to cut spending and provide more services.

The only way to do that is by being more efficient. Yet wile Rob Ford is a known penny pincher, Smitherman's record is filled with tax and fee increases as well as massive waste. Now, some people can live with tax and fee increases and some people argued that such increases are worth it for what they perceived as better services. However, I don't see how anybody can believe that Smitherman will freeze taxes without cutting anything or how he can improve effiency when he is still refusing to take responsibility for the e-health scandal.

Somebody said Smitherman made mistakes and he would learn from them. How can you learn from mistakes without acknowledging them first? I don't think Rob Ford will learn from some of his outbursts because he believe he did nothing wrong. I also don't believe Smitherman learned anything.

 

[archanfel]

We are still in recession. And yet the unions went on strike, while the rest of us may have lost their jobs or did not get raises. The pro-Ford vote is really more an anti-union vote. It also means that Joe Pantalone will not be mayor, too pro-union.

The remaining candidates should go after the anti-union vote, if they want to win. Otherwise, we would have to thank unions for delivering Rob Ford a victory, just like when the unions gave us Mike Harris.

While I agree with your sentiment, I think unions should have the right to go on strike. It's only our politians should be on the side of taxpayer, not the unions. Unions should work solely for their clients and our politicians should work solely for their clients, i.e. the taxpayers. Right now, the problem is that our politicians are working for the wrong team.

 

[doady]

The only way to do that is by being more efficient. Yet wile Rob Ford is a known penny pincher, Smitherman's record is filled with tax and fee increases as well as massive waste. Now, some people can live with tax and fee increases and some people argued that such increases are worth it for what they perceived as better services. However, I don't see how anybody can believe that Smitherman will freeze taxes without cutting anything or how he can improve effiency when he is still refusing to take responsibility for the e-health scandal.

From this discussions that have taken place here and in the media, you'd think that these people were running to become Toronto's budget chief or something, rather than running to become mayor.

 

[archanfel]

From this discussions that have taken place here and in the media, you'd think that these people were running to become Toronto's budget chief or something, rather than running to become mayor.

Unfortunately, budget chief comes with the mayor. If there's a separate election for an independent budget chief, I don't think people would be so keen on money in the mayor election.

 

[duper]

Well, if you argue that way, then Rob Ford's numbers are not out yet. Both of them have made promises (very similar ones in fact), except we know Rob Ford is going to cut services whereas we don't know how Smitherman is going to cut spending and provide more services.

The only way to do that is by being more efficient. Yet wile Rob Ford is a known penny pincher, Smitherman's record is filled with tax and fee increases as well as massive waste.

If you don't count the $600 million PER YEAR in waste he eliminated. It's one of the reasons so many prominent tories back him.

Now, some people can live with tax and fee increases and some people argued that such increases are worth it for what they perceived as better services. However, I don't see how anybody can believe that Smitherman will freeze taxes without cutting anything or how he can improve effiency when he is still refusing to take responsibility for the e-health scandal.

Somebody said Smitherman made mistakes and he would learn from them. How can you learn from mistakes without acknowledging them first? I don't think Rob Ford will learn from some of his outbursts because he believe he did nothing wrong. I also don't believe Smitherman learned anything.

On what planet has Smitherman not acknowledged his share of responsibility? And yes, that's share of responsibility.

Or maybe you're playing the "I just said it, so it's true" game.

Smitherman has said, repeatedly, that he accepts his share. He even launched a website to clear the air on the matter. He was also one of the most respected members of Queens' Park. John Tory even identified Smitherman when asked which member of the opposing party he'd want in his cabinet.

So, you can say what you wish, but to those who pay attention, he has a strong record.

 

[duper]

Ford fudges his numbers frequently. It's kind of silly to think that he has any credibility on the budget file.

His numbers simply do not add up.

 

[GraphicMatt]

The constant 'eHealth' refrain has gotten really retarded. To hear it from some people, apparently Smitherman willfully took a billion dollars and threw it down a well.

He's talked about it several times - essentially at every debate -: building electronic health records is expensive and takes a long time. Alberta spent 1.2 billion dollars on their system. Smitherman was one of three health ministers who held the job while eHealth was being built. There was mismanagement and a portion of the money was not spent well, particularly when it came to consultants and private sector people brought in to work on the project.

The weird thing to me is that I have no idea what the current status of electronic health records in Ontario is. I hope they haven't just given up on it. It's really important.

 

[archanfel]

If you don't count the $600 million PER YEAR in waste he eliminated. It's one of the reasons so many prominent tories back him.

On what planet has Smitherman not acknowledged his share of responsibility? And yes, that's share of responsibility.

Or maybe you're playing the "I just said it, so it's true" game.

Smitherman has said, repeatedly, that he accepts his share. He even launched a website to clear the air on the matter. He was also one of the most respected members of Queens' Park. John Tory even identified Smitherman when asked which member of the opposing party he'd want in his cabinet.

So, you can say what you wish, but to those who pay attention, he has a strong record.

How did he accept his share? David Caplan was forced to resign. What did George Smitherman do?

"You know, in certain older civilized cultures... when men failed as entirely...as" George Smitherman has, "they would throw themselves... on their swords."

 

[archanfel]

The constant 'eHealth' refrain has gotten really retarded. To hear it from some people, apparently Smitherman willfully took a billion dollars and threw it down a well.

He's talked about it several times - essentially at every debate -: building electronic health records is expensive and takes a long time. Alberta spent 1.2 billion dollars on their system. Smitherman was one of three health ministers who held the job while eHealth was being built. There was mismanagement and a portion of the money was not spent well, particularly when it came to consultants and private sector people brought in to work on the project.

The weird thing to me is that I have no idea what the current status of electronic health records in Ontario is. I hope they haven't just given up on it. It's really important.

Oh, I see, so it's no big deal. Who is the auditor general to say "Ontario taxpayers have not received value for money for this $1 billion investment". And who are we as taxpayers to be angry? We should all thank every deity out there that we had George as our health minister.

And according to the Star (which is the best new source if you believe some people here): "None of this happened on his tenure – it's all under George," said a senior Liberal, referring to Smitherman, health minister from 2003 until 2008. "But with the report coming out, David takes the fall and is a good soldier."

And you think this guy who let somebody else (maybe even a friend) "takes the fall" has integrity or credibility?

 

[archanfel]

From CBC:

Hudak said Wednesday he also expected Smitherman to resign upon the release of the eHealth report.

"The auditor general's report makes it quite clear that many of the biggest abuses of taxpayers' money occurred under the watch of minister George Smitherman," Hudak told reporters. "And George Smitherman has escaped any sanction or any scrutiny by the premier for his role in this affair."

NDP Leader Andrea Horwath also levelled a blast at the deputy premier.

"I can tell you if I was the premier of this province, I wouldn't have Mr. Smitherman in my cabinet nor the current deputy who oversaw all these things either," she told reporters Wednesday afternoon.

Smitherman, who is considering running for Toronto mayor, addressed the issue on Wednesday.

"I haven't any doubt whatsoever that there are lessons that I can learn — that we can all learn — because of the investigation that has occurred," Smitherman told the legislature.

Well, I guess Smitherman did say something. "Lessons that we can all learn". Nice responsibility taking.

 

[Torontovibe]

I was thinking the same thing about Smitherman. Agree with him or not, we know where Ford stand. And agree with him or not, we know where David Miller stand. Do we know where Smitherman stand? Does his number add up better than Ford's?

We had the health premium and now electricity price is going up. That's all fine and shine if Smitherman wasn't talking about cleaning up city hall, reining in spending, fighting waste.

You do have a point there, Smitherman has not defined what he stands for and yes, he would probably bend to what the polls say.

On the other hand, Ford's whole campaign is based on the budget, yet he repeats over and over, facts and figures, that he knows are not true. He is out and out lying to the public, not just spinning a point of view. How can we trust a man who we all know is a lier? Not only that but from everything I've seen, he's also a vindictive, miserable prick. (in my humble opinion) He's reminds me of Eddie Hascal and Archie Bunker all wrapped into one.

In this election, there are no good choices.

 

[archanfel]

You do have a point there, Smitherman has not defined what he stands for and yes, he would probably bend to what the polls say.

On the other hand, Ford's whole campaign is based on the budget, yet he repeats over and over, facts and figures, that he knows are not true. He is out and out lying to the public, not just spinning a point of view. How can we trust a man who we all know is a lier? Not only that but from everything I've seen, he's also a vindictive, miserable prick. (in my humble opinion) He's reminds me of Eddie Hascal and Archie Bunker all wrapped into one.

In this election, there are no good choices.

Sadly, I agree. I am fairly sure I not going to vote for anybody.

 

[Coltaine79]

When asked if he would consider dropping out at any point, even if his numbers remained far below that of the front runner, he said absolutely not. He will not drop out under any circumstances and would consider such a disservice to democracy. I never expected him to. You don't just give up on a 30 year career like that. This is why I'm near certain that we'll end up with Mayor Ford. Nobody will budge, regardless of how bad they're doing.

Hooray for hubris!

 

[GenerationW]

Obviously you a superman, a perfect human being, so you can contact the star and write a better article.

Obviously!

 

[GenerationW]

On what planet has Smitherman not acknowledged his share of responsibility? And yes, that's share of responsibility.

It doesn't matter what he says about that anymore since the damage is already done. As the candidate (this forum aside) with the highest negatives, it's unlikely Smitherman can pass Ford. Everyone behind him knows it, which is why no one wants to "drop out" and be a kingmaker. They all believe they can be the king.

The worst nightmare of the "anyone but Ford" movement has come true: Smitherman being in second place.