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Deaths can get out of hand again once ICU capacity becomes stretched. I suspect the 'casedemic' (without associated deaths) we have seen thus far is due to the more favourable summer conditions, so I worry that as we get into the winter months we might start to see an resurgence of severe cases and hospitalizations.
 
When I was starting Kindergarten in 1991 parents had to provide proof of immunization from things like Rabies, Diphtheria, Polio, etc before being allowed to enroll in public school. People understood the need for this and got their children immunized accordingly. As the years progressed, people got stupid and decided to refuse vaccinations based on pseudoscience.
Same with me. I first went to Junior Kindergarten in 1992 and we also had to have proof of vaccination.

Nowadays, thanks to the wonders of antisocial media, confirmation bias and belief perseverance become more prevalent.

For many of us, personal freedoms are fundamental, but the needs of the community are greater than personal freedoms, especially when it comes to dealing with contagious diseases such as COVID-19.
 
Same with me. I first went to Junior Kindergarten in 1992 and we also had to have proof of vaccination.

Nowadays, thanks to the wonders of antisocial media, confirmation bias and belief perseverance become more prevalent.

For many of us, personal freedoms are fundamental, but the needs of the community are greater than personal freedoms, especially when it comes to dealing with contagious diseases such as COVID-19.

The age of deference is over.

The issue about people not getting the vaccine is not people being anti-vaccine.

It is that the response to this pandemic has been such a disastrous mess from our politicians, the WHO, the leading Superpower the USA, and non-stop conflicting advice from doctors and infectious disease specialists.

Like the big difference from the early 90s is that we are no longer in an age of deference as there was a monopoly on information. Now many people have incorrect info or fake expertise but they are not fully blind as before due to limitless information on the internet.


Like I heard doctors hear that their young patients routinely push back or ask questions while elders just take the doctor's word as the word of God.
 
The issue is who is correct though?

Lockdown everything till spring people, or keep in limited restrictions and keep the caseload high but manageable level.

Honestly, if they keep restaurants, bars, nightclubs, banquet halls and stripclubs closed until spring this will all blow over. Nobody will be having large gatherings outdoors when it is -30 and there is a blizzard though I would love to see the anti-maskers try.

It sucks, it does but it is a necessary evil.
 
I wonder what the province is going to do for Black Friday and the Christmas shopping season. You know the malls will be slammed with idiots looking to shop for gifts.
 
Honestly, if they keep restaurants, bars, nightclubs, banquet halls and stripclubs closed until spring this will all blow over. Nobody will be having large gatherings outdoors when it is -30 and there is a blizzard though I would love to see the anti-maskers try.

It sucks, it does but it is a necessary evil.

Large gathering outdoors is less of an issue than large gatherings indoors; but winter in general is not the most conducive to that anyways. On the other hand, ventilation is going to be an issue (think flus and colds when it gets cooler - same issue with COVID)

AoD
 
Honestly, if they keep restaurants, bars, nightclubs, banquet halls and stripclubs closed until spring this will all blow over. Nobody will be having large gatherings outdoors when it is -30 and there is a blizzard though I would love to see the anti-maskers try.

It sucks, it does but it is a necessary evil.
That is fine but the government better give some relief to these businesses or their won't be any jobs to go back to for 10-15% of our population.

I would say that even if cases go up a lot i am certain bars will reopen by new years for sure.
 
I wonder what the province is going to do for Black Friday and the Christmas shopping season. You know the malls will be slammed with idiots looking to shop for gifts.

is your logic anyone that steps outside their house an idiot 😂 🤔

Like I went to the mall to get a printer cause I needed one that evening cause government is stuck in the stone age and wants certain documents printed out by the next day (prime is not that fast always lol).

What I am trying to say is that what is non-essential changes a lot when it goes from 2 weeks to 4 weeks to 6 months and now till spring. People need to get shit done and cant hold off everything forever lol.

So to some people, you should just stay at home apart from grocery but a lot of people need to start getting on with their lives in some way.

and to me people visiting a store is not high risk.
 
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That is fine but the government better give some relief to these businesses or their won't be any jobs to go back to for 10-15% of our population.

I would say that even if cases go up a lot i am certain bars will reopen by new years for sure.

If a business is so fragile that it can't survive than perhaps it wasn't destined to.

Keep in mind that some businesses have insanely small margins.
 
If a business is so fragile that it can't survive than perhaps it wasn't destined to.

Keep in mind that some businesses have insanely small margins.

Well, I dont think a business is fragile if it cant survive a government-mandated shutdown for many months.

Lets see how long the government works with no taxes for 3-6 months lol.


I just think many people on this board have no care about dealing with a post COVID world and it is something to be concerned about.

Yes lets avoid deaths but to what limit. That is going to be the big focus on public debate in Canada i think till spring.

Cause the banks are not offering assistance anymore to people..
The govt is not giving money to everyone anymore.

Like things are about to get ugly i think.
 
Well you didn't want to tough it out and eradicate it so that we can enjoy what Taiwan, New Zealand and other places were able to enjoy, so you can't really complain about the slow-burn alternative - which is what we are doing right now. Everyone had been warned that restrictions will have to be tightened up again if the number of new cases increases, and the current rate is higher than what we have seen in the spring. Don't call that a surprise now and bargain for something else. You cannot have your cake and eat it too - all the complaining doesn't change that. In fact, I should be pretty annoyed at people who insisted on taking this path instead of eradication - because it actually made the whole thing worse and risk losing the all the gains during the initial lockdown.

Sure, you can pursue something similar to what the US is doing (i.e. nothing), if you don't consider that to be a limit. Just don't come back and complain when it is my "whatever" caught it and didn't make it. I guess 200K dead is what you get when you have a good chunk of people believing they knew better than even imperfect experts.

We haven't even finished with the COVID world, dreaming about the end of the tunnel doesn't make it come faster; and choosing the wrong policies now may actually end up making it worse and delaying the end.

The age of deference is over.
The issue about people not getting the vaccine is not people being anti-vaccine.
It is that the response to this pandemic has been such a disastrous mess from our politicians, the WHO, the leading Superpower the USA, and non-stop conflicting advice from doctors and infectious disease specialists.
Like the big difference from the early 90s is that we are no longer in an age of deference as there was a monopoly on information. Now many people have incorrect info or fake expertise but they are not fully blind as before due to limitless information on the internet.
Like I heard doctors hear that their young patients routinely push back or ask questions while elders just take the doctor's word as the word of God.

That's an excuse - whatever faults the governments had, most were able to push forward policies that kept the virus from spreading unchecked. Places where government failed to do so are precisely where they undertook policies contrary to expert opinion and/or having significant portion of the population refusing to heed expert opinion and continue to engage in high risk activites (e.g. US, Brazil; UK during the early phase of the epidemic). Don't blame conflicting advice among experts either - those petered out quite quickly after the initial confusion - there is no question after a month or two that wearing masks help reduce infections; that being in indoor spaces in close proximity is high risk - where it failed is when you have members of the public as well as certain politicians keep on pushing the narrative that everything is a-okay and normal, and that precaution is unnecessary.

Like denying that there is need to close dine-in at bars and restaurants and putting forward some arcane set of restrictions that are hard to understand and enforce. That's not being able to see with "limitless information" - that's foolishness masquerading as "citizen expertise".

Now many people have incorrect info or fake expertise but they are not fully blind as before due to limitless information on the internet.

"These are dangerous times. Never have so many people had access to so much knowledge, and yet been so resistant to learning anything." — Tom Nichols, The Death of Expertise

AoD
 
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Raising the carbon tax is one way to help pay for CERB and other COVID-19 incentives. To help the people without work, we may have to raise the price of gasoline taxes and other taxes to help pay for it. Slowly increase the tax, starting small.


Carbon tax must rise if Canada is to meet Paris emission targets, PBO says

See link.

The parliamentary budget officer says the federal carbon tax would have to rise over the coming years if the country is to meet emission-reduction targets under the Paris climate accord.

The issue is by how much and whether the costs are shared broadly.

The carbon tax is already set to rise to $50 per tonne of emissions by 2022 and the Liberals have not said what the path for the levy might be after that.

In a report this morning, budget officer Yves Giroux estimates the tax will have to rise to $117 per tonne by 2030 if it is applied to all industries.

But if the government caps the levy at $50 per tonne for big industrial emitters, households and other sectors of the economy would have to cover the difference, requiring a levy of $289 per tonne in 2030.

The scenarios envisioned by the budget office assume the federal fuel charge applies to all provinces and territories post-2022, and that carbon taxes are the only measure used to close the emissions gap.
 
and to me people visiting a store is not high risk.

Yup, I don't see a problem here (image from 2017):

1602464513876.png


I wonder how it will play out in the US, where they really take it seriously.
 

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