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AlvinofDiaspar said:
The logic doesn't hold - if it was COVID before January 2020 and nobody took any precautions, it should have spread like wildfire across the LTCs and hospitals - and resulted in an amount of death that make the initial outbreak in April look like a child's play.

AoD
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I'm not trying to spread conspiracy theories but the links I attached are scientific data/papers from Italy that showed positive for SARS-CoV-2 antibodies as early as September 2019.

“It means that the new coronavirus can circulate among the population for long and with a low rate of lethality not because it is disappearing but only to surge again,” he added.

Coronavirus emerged in Italy earlier than thought, study shows (cnbc.com)

Unexpected detection of SARS-CoV-2 antibodies in the prepandemic period in Italy - Giovanni Apolone, Emanuele Montomoli, Alessandro Manenti, Mattia Boeri, Federica Sabia, Inesa Hyseni, Livia Mazzini, Donata Martinuzzi, Laura Cantone, Gianluca Milanese, Stefano Sestini, Paola Suatoni, Alfonso Marchianò, Valentina Bollati, Gabriella Sozzi, Ugo Pastorino, 2020 (sagepub.com)

SARS-CoV-2 has been circulating in northern Italy since December 2019: Evidence from environmental monitoring (nih.gov)

"It showed that four cases dated back to the first week of October were also positive for antibodies neutralizing the virus, meaning they had got infected in September, Giovanni Apolone, a co-author of the study, told Reuters.

“This is the main finding: people with no symptoms not only were positive after the serological tests but had also antibodies able to kill the virus,” Apolone said.

“It means that the new coronavirus can circulate among the population for long and with a low rate of lethality not because it is disappearing but only to surge again,” he added.

Italian researchers told Reuters in March that they reported a higher than usual number of cases of severe pneumonia and flu in Lombardy in the last quarter of 2019 in a sign that the new coronavirus might have circulated earlier than previously thought."
 
gabe said:
I think it was in Toronto around late 2019. I got so sick about about a year ago around this time of year. It was the sickest i have ever been in my entire life. I had 100% of the covid symptoms. (high fever lost my taste and smell for a month, horrible cough, hard to breath) Took me over a month to fully get over it and three months for my cough to go away. I know other people got sick with the same kind of virus. Maybe it was a coincidence? It does seam a little strange, that a nasty virus was going around, then a few months later the world shuts down.
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Richard White said:
I had the same thing. I lost all my energy and for the first time in my life contemplated going to hospital because I was that sick.

I was hacking worse than ever before and couldn't shake what I had for weeks.

It wasn't a cold and I had no sense of smell. It was covid.
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my mother had a pretty bad cold in February ish...
 
Germany is pushing into 5 x first wave peak now. If my Canada -> Germany proxy theory holds Canada in a number of weeks will push past 10,000 cases per day. Ontario will be at about 2500 cases a day depending on the volume of testing.
 
Because sometimes...........even in a pandemic..........you need to just stop............and smile.

From this story, in The Star:

www.thestar.com

WATCH: Students love it, actually. Brock professor’s video message spoofing a modern holiday classic movie goes viral

Lori MacNeil began posting funny messages before her online lectures to help keep students engaged during the daily slog of online learning.
www.thestar.com www.thestar.com

A video from a Genetics Prof at Brock, to her Students.........w/some needed light-heartedness.

 
cdr108 said:
I'm not trying to spread conspiracy theories but the links I attached are scientific data/papers from Italy that showed positive for SARS-CoV-2 antibodies as early as September 2019.

“It means that the new coronavirus can circulate among the population for long and with a low rate of lethality not because it is disappearing but only to surge again,” he added.

Coronavirus emerged in Italy earlier than thought, study shows (cnbc.com)

Unexpected detection of SARS-CoV-2 antibodies in the prepandemic period in Italy - Giovanni Apolone, Emanuele Montomoli, Alessandro Manenti, Mattia Boeri, Federica Sabia, Inesa Hyseni, Livia Mazzini, Donata Martinuzzi, Laura Cantone, Gianluca Milanese, Stefano Sestini, Paola Suatoni, Alfonso Marchianò, Valentina Bollati, Gabriella Sozzi, Ugo Pastorino, 2020 (sagepub.com)

SARS-CoV-2 has been circulating in northern Italy since December 2019: Evidence from environmental monitoring (nih.gov)

"It showed that four cases dated back to the first week of October were also positive for antibodies neutralizing the virus, meaning they had got infected in September, Giovanni Apolone, a co-author of the study, told Reuters.

“This is the main finding: people with no symptoms not only were positive after the serological tests but had also antibodies able to kill the virus,” Apolone said.

“It means that the new coronavirus can circulate among the population for long and with a low rate of lethality not because it is disappearing but only to surge again,” he added.

Italian researchers told Reuters in March that they reported a higher than usual number of cases of severe pneumonia and flu in Lombardy in the last quarter of 2019 in a sign that the new coronavirus might have circulated earlier than previously thought."
Click to expand...

This has been debunked. The anitbodies present were for genetically similar strains of coronavirus which were not nearly as lethal but have been around for years or decades or even centuries. This is backed up with basic logic in that we know the arrival in the eastern US of the virus came from Europe via New York City with genetic analysis. It ididn't quietly circulate. It exploded across the population, just like it did in Italy when it actually arrived there.

The sources above are mass produced junk-food news. These are the same outlets mocked for badly interpreting anything medical science for the past decades because they would actually go out with headlines like "scientests say drinking two bottles of wine per day will prevent strokes!" based on studies that had nothing to do with that. Now we are believing their interpretations on scientific papers about this? Please. I am not sure how people are not aware that these media outlets basically employ large numbers of minimum wage workers with a mandate to cut/paste and churn out dozens of news storiettes per day now, many of which are doing it as a second survival job. They don't have time or a reason to care about depth or analysis; they are too busy worrying about how they have to submit another three posts in the next 45 minutes so they don't get fired and can't collect the $25/post that they really need. This is not new either, that is how it has been for years. Non-executive level editors don't even exist anymore. They were outsourced in the early 2000's to people williing to work overnight in dingy suburban strip mall offices in far-flung locations, and then those workers were laid off entirely after 2015.
 
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Jonny5 said:
This has been debunked. The anitbodies present were for genetically similar strains of coronavirus which were not nearly as lethal but have been around for years or decades or even centuries. This is backed up with basic logic in that we know the arrival in the eastern US of the virus came from Europe via New York City with genetic analysis. It ididn't quietly circulate. It exploded across the population, just like it did in Italy when it actually arrived there.

The sources above are mass produced junk-food news. These are the same outlets mocked for badly interpreting anything medical science for the past decades because they would actually go out with headlines like "scientests say drinking two bottles of wine per day will prevent strokes!" based on studies that had nothing to do with that. Now we are believing their interpretations on scientific papers about this? Please. I am not sure how people are not aware that these media outlets basically employ large numbers of minimum wage workers with a mandate to cut/paste and churn out dozens of news storiettes per day now, many of which are doing it as a second survival job. They don't have time or a reason to care about depth or analysis; they are too busy worrying about how they have to submit another three posts in the next 45 minutes so they don't get fired and can't collect the $25/post that they really need. This is not new either, that is how it has been for years. Non-executive level editors don't even exist anymore. They were outsourced in the early 2000's to people williing to work overnight in dingy suburban strip mall offices in far-flung locations, and then those workers were laid off entirely after 2015.
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I wouldn't call NCBI uncreditable source, but I do acknowledge the other links were from media outlets
The National Center for Biotechnology Information is part of the United States National Library of Medicine, a branch of the National Institutes of Health. The NCBI is located in Bethesda, Maryland and was founded in 1988.

SARS-CoV-2 has been circulating in northern Italy since December 2019: Evidence from environmental monitoring (nih.gov)

If you have some credible sources that debunk it, please provide. THX
 
tiffer24 said:
UPDATED: Province now says there are 150 active COVID-19 outbreaks in Ontario long-term care homes.

https://www.cp24.com/news/province-...-ontario-logs-1-940-new-cases-today-1.5230246
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"There are 79 new cases of COVID-19 among residents of Ontario's long-term care homes and 15 among staff." The LTC staff will be getting the COVID-19 vaccine first, allegedly. Will take 14 days before the first dose to become 52% effective. Will need second dose 28 days after the first, and another 14 days before becoming 95% effective.
 
cdr108 said:
I wouldn't call NCBI uncreditable source, but I do acknowledge the other links were from media outlets
The National Center for Biotechnology Information is part of the United States National Library of Medicine, a branch of the National Institutes of Health. The NCBI is located in Bethesda, Maryland and was founded in 1988.

SARS-CoV-2 has been circulating in northern Italy since December 2019: Evidence from environmental monitoring (nih.gov)

If you have some credible sources that debunk it, please provide. THX
Click to expand...

NCBI is a database of published material - it shouldn't be used an argument as to whether the material itself is authoritative. For that you need to look at the journal, review policies, the authors, and the piece itself.

AoD
 
AlvinofDiaspar said:
NCBI is a database of published material - it shouldn't be used an argument as to whether the material itself is authoritative. For that you need to look at the journal, review policies, the authors, and the piece itself.

AoD
Click to expand...
However, all journals covered/indexed by the NCBI databases (such as PubMed) have been selected after a fairly rigorous review process - though individual incorrect articles can certainly be published, the journals themselves are 'reliable' and the NCBI notes any retractions or corrections.
 
The first vaccinations reported in the media is a great feel good story. I guess we should savor that for a moment.

As throughout this pandemic however I think it paints a false narrative to the public. 2021 will be a grind. I would wager you will be more likely to contract covid-19 in 2021 than 2020.

I'm interested in how the pandemic will be declared over because people have this false sense that Covid-19 will be imminently eradicated. The reality will probably be an unsatisfying metric-based declaration like an icu capacity threshold target.

The downside risk is that vaccination roll out and insufficient vaccine uptake will roll this though into 2022 providing time for the virus to mutate sufficiently to make it an annually required shot. I think this is highly likely. Covid-19 will become less lethal but potentially require an annual shot to help control it.
 
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