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The Admiral's experience reminds me that hospitals have been a key source of spread.

I don't wonder if:

A) All testing of persons who either asymptomatic or have minor symptoms should be taken completely out of hospitals; and those who perform said tests (off-site) should be precludes from also working in the hospital setting.

B) If ER waiting rooms shouldn't start by assuming you have Covid and keeping any patients to the extent practical in isolation until proven otherwise.

C) That we shouldn't moving to create far more negative-pressure rooms both in the ER and in the main hospital, to keep people properly isolated, particularly those that are elderly or immune-compromised.

I'm not indicting the sector; or those who manage it, in what has surely been a very challenging year. ( I know some of these folks personally, and can attest to as much).

But I feel as though the in-hospital spread rates simply aren't acceptable; and if what we're doing isn't working, we ought to try something else.
 
Northern Light said:
The Admiral's experience reminds me that hospitals have been a key source of spread.

I don't wonder if:

A) All testing of persons who either asymptomatic or have minor symptoms should be taken completely out of hospitals; and those who perform said tests (off-site) should be precludes from also working in the hospital setting.

B) If ER waiting rooms shouldn't start by assuming you have Covid and keeping any patients to the extent practical in isolation until proven otherwise.

C) That we shouldn't moving to create far more negative-pressure rooms both in the ER and in the main hospital, to keep people properly isolated, particularly those that are elderly or immune-compromised.

I'm not indicting the sector; or those who manage it, in what has surely been a very challenging year. ( I know some of these folks personally, and can attest to as much).

But I feel as though the in-hospital spread rates simply aren't acceptable; and if what we're doing isn't working, we ought to try something else.
Click to expand...

If you look at hospitals in the GTA and Ottawa there well over cap as it is there really is no room to put people who might have covid.
 
jayme2016 said:
If you look at hospitals in the GTA and Ottawa there well over cap as it is there really is no room to put people who might have covid.
Click to expand...

Right.

But at this point; that's a choice.

By which I mean, our hospitals in a non-Covid flu seasons often run at greater than 100% of capacity.

They shouldn't.

We're now in a pandemic; one that's been ongoing for 8 months.

Government has had ample time to build new emergency hospital space.

NYC built over 5,000 emergency beds, taking over convention spaces and other large facilities.

In the GTA, Joseph Brant in Burlington built an emergency field hospital/expansion in their parking lot within weeks of the beginning of the pandemic.

There was opportunity between then and now to repeat this a dozen times over in the GTA and provide our hospitals breathing room. It hasn't happened.

Last I checked, the province has budgeted and has more than 12B cash on hand in its Covid contingency fund that has not been spent.
 
Ontario should have had some idea this was coming last winter they could have prepared they did not this will be Ford legacy.
 
Furthering Northernlight’s criticism, the numbers are looking surprisingly predictable based on earlier estimates:

Antibody data estimated Spring first-wave actual infections at approx. 4-times lab confirmed cases. Here we are in the second wave at 4-times Spring first-wave lab confirmed cases and approaching similar hospitalization numbers.

Western European examples already proved in advance the second-wave will be larger than the first as a last-minute advanced warning. I chose Germany as a reasonable continental open economy proxy. That’s why I was confident to predict 4-times spring peak weeks ago and now with Germany breaching 5-times peak we will follow.

In other words this is all clockwork predictable even to a lay person, meaning there are really no surprises and no excuses. It’s really just about status quo inertia, a stubbornness not to act differently and do things differently even in the face of obvious overwhelming evidence.

Sound like any other issue we know of (cough cough climate change)?
 
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Richard White said:
I can see that and I can see it being provincial. Complete 2 week lockdown of everything except hardware and grocery stores. That does not include wal-mart or costco just because they have a grocery section.

No curbside pickups, no take-out only. A COMPLETE shutdown.
Click to expand...

Depends on how big of a grocery section they have. The Hudson's Bay downtown store has a grocery section, but was ordered closed. Guess Doug doesn't use The Hudson's Bay stores.
 
W. K. Lis said:
Depends on how big of a grocery section they have. The Hudson's Bay downtown store has a grocery section, but was ordered closed. Guess Doug doesn't use The Hudson's Bay stores.
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I don't care how big of a Grocery Section they have. Can you honestly tell me that people only go to Wal-Mart or Costco for Groceries and not to buy TV's, Clothes, etc?
 
jayme2016 said:
Time to put Ontario into a complete lock down.
Click to expand...

Many of the Public Health Region numbers have barely broken double digits in new case numbers (many are still in triple digits in cumulative numbers since this whole thing began). I would vote for roadblocks first to contain the areas that can't seem to follow basic guidelines rather than wreck local economies for no apparent benefit.

What meant by "complete lock down"? Do we assume grocery stores, pharmacies, etc. have on-site stock sufficient to get through whatever period, or would goods movement be allowed? If the power goes out or your furnace/elevator breaks down, do we just wait until it's over or warms up? Retail lock down, where warranted, I can understand, but "complete", not so sure.
 
Richard White said:
I don't care how big of a Grocery Section they have. Can you honestly tell me that people only go to Wal-Mart or Costco for Groceries and not to buy TV's, Clothes, etc?
Click to expand...

That's why the small, independent, non-corporate stores would like a word with Doug Ford.
 
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