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gibsonm said:
There are mandates for transportation and federal employees. A dysfunctional healthcare system doesn’t excuse radical government overreach. Anyway, I’m sure that many of the posters on here are either retired or enjoy enough pandemic privilege to insulate themselves from the hardships most workers face. Young people are taking restrictions particularly hard. Seems selfish of the Boomers, who can stay home, mask up, triple vax, and order from Amazon or Grocery Gateway.
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Not a boomer. Xennial here.

I know people (other Xennials/Millenials) who work in healthcare. What's "selfish" is people thinking they deserve to have their anti-social tendencies recognized as a "right". Someone working from home is doing what the government has *asked* the people to do if it is possible. Selfishness would be insisting on your employees being in an office all day to assuage your micromanager tendencies.

Some jobs can't work from home, but that's part of the point of *others* staying at home if they can—so there are fewer people interacting with one another. If in 2 years now you don't recognize that is how this virus spreads, smh.

In a perfect world, being an Amazon or Grocery Gateway employee would be one of the safer jobs out there. Mostly short-term interaction, or very little if people are responsible and request no-contact delivery or parcel lockers are used.

The "privilege" shows hardest on those ignoring the problems going on right now and demanding that everything return to normal. There's nothing normal about a pandemic, and waving a hand and trying to act like it isn't happening while demanding your nostalgic comforts be returned is the epitome of both selfishness and fear.

Adapt or die, as they say.

But as you bring up "government overreach" I will ask for the third time to cite the rights and freedoms from the charter that are being impinged upon.
 
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zang said:
In a perfect world, being an Amazon or Grocery Gateway employee would be one of the safer jobs out there. Mostly short-term interaction, or very little if people are responsible and request no-contact delivery or parcel lockers are used.
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We know it isn't - it was bad before the pandemic and made even worse by it. There were numerous outbreaks that were attributed to Amazon fulfillment centres - and these workers are precisely the ones who are least able to stand up and demand protections (and we have a province that willfully turned the other cheek about it).

AoD
 
AlvinofDiaspar said:
We know it isn't - it was bad before the pandemic and made even worse by it. There were numerous outbreaks that were attributed to Amazon fulfillment centres - and these workers are precisely the ones who are least able to stand up and demand protections (and we have a province that willfully turned the other cheek about it).

AoD
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"Safer" in regards to delivery people and covid-contacts. But yes, distribution centres are woefully underprotected by the government; and I hope that those who work there really remember that the next election because Ford is a week old egg salad sandwich wrapped in a cheap suit covered in bumper stickers and isn't going to change. But that is a matter of failed policy and feckless leaders and not selfishness on the part of "boomers", per gibsonm's statement.
 
zang said:
Not a boomer. Xennial here.

I know people (other Xennials/Millenials) who work in healthcare. What's "selfish" is people thinking they deserve to have their anti-social tendencies recognized as a "right". Someone working from home is doing what the government has *asked* the people to do if it is possible. Selfishness would be insisting on your employees being in an office all day to assuage your micromanager tendencies.

Some jobs can't work from home, but that's part of the point of *others* staying at home if they can—so there are fewer people interacting with one another. If in 2 years now you don't recognize that is how this virus spreads, smh.

In a perfect world, being an Amazon or Grocery Gateway employee would be one of the safer jobs out there. Mostly short-term interaction, or very little if people are responsible and request no-contact delivery or parcel lockers are used.

The "privilege" shows hardest on those ignoring the problems going on right now and demanding that everything return to normal. There's nothing normal about a pandemic, and waving a hand and trying to act like it isn't happening while demanding your nostalgic comforts be returned is the epitome of both selfishness and fear.

Adapt or die, as they say.

But as you bring up "government overreach" I will ask for the third time to cite the rights and freedoms from the charter that are being impinged upon.
Click to expand...
We have the right to earn livelihood, freedom of movement, and much more. I’m not doing constitutional legal analysis for you. The violations are legion in the name of the endless emergency. Perhaps you enjoy an anti-social existence holed up in an apartment, but that isn’t a healthy well-rounded life. People have social-emotional needs, the need to explore potential in new environments, and experience life in multiple modalities, not just live through some creeped-out Zuckerberg virtual avatar or parties through Zoom. Go ahead and hide in your basement, order in, work and live from home whenever possible, but don’t impose such maladjustments on others interminably.
 
AlvinofDiaspar said:
Remember how this discussion started - the complaints about crossing the border to Florida. That doesn't sound like "hardships most workers face". Stop equating inconveniences to actual hardship where actual workers who didn't have the luxury to work from home, that is exposed to potential infections, that don't have enough money to feed themselves/family, much less buy PPE; that actually lost their job - to people who can't cross the border for recreational purposes without providing a few extra forms and test results. That's not hardship, that's privilege speaking and trying to tack itself on actual hardship to make a case of "poor me".

AoD
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These hardships, whether for recreation or the necessity of frontline work, are now mostly the result of dated and unnecessary restrictions. The wave is passing; most people are vaccinated. Now what? Masking, WFH, intermittent closures, more debt because pandemic, new variants, the sky is falling…Remember the frontline workers like the truckers who delivered your food and goods throughout the pandemic?
 
gibsonm said:
We have the right to earn livelihood, freedom of movement, and much more. I’m not doing constitutional legal analysis for you.
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Because you have no leg to stand on here. Rights and Freedoms in the charter don't exist to interpret as you wish. They generally have limited scope. They are not inalienable rights, regardless of your poor interpretation. A lot of them protect things you are (gender, race, sexual orientation, etc.).

Right to livelihood does not mean you have a right to any job you want, nor the right to dictate your job description and requirements to your employer. Even though rights exist to protect those with medical conditions (something you are), an accommodation only need be made if it can be considered reasonable. An epileptic can never be a commercial airline pilot. And it's not discrimination to say an epileptic cannot be a commercial pilot. Likewise, no one has a right to earn a living as a street cocaine dealer.

Vaccines aren't something you are though. They're something you choose. Big, big difference.

Aside from that, if an employer implements new health and safety requirements, that's fully within their rights. An employer can totally fire you if you fail to renew a required qualification, or a new job qualification, within a reasonable amount of time. Some jobs even already have vaccine requirements (!), like health care workers in a hospital setting, who generally have Flu, TB and other mandatory vaccinations. Exemptions of any sort are quite rare.

Who's stopping our freedom of movement, by the way? I have a friend in Costa Rica right now. My sister just came back from there herself. Hell, there's a convoy of trucks that has been moving unimpeded across the country. So who's stopped them from going where they want to go?

gibsonm said:
The violations are legion in the name of the endless emergency. Perhaps you enjoy an anti-social existence holed up in an apartment, but that isn’t a healthy well-rounded life. People have social-emotional needs, the need to explore potential in new environments, and experience life in multiple modalities, not just live through some creeped-out Zuckerberg virtual avatar or parties through Zoom. Go ahead and hide in your basement, order in, work and live from home whenever possible, but don’t impose such maladjustments on others interminably.
Click to expand...
So, you kept yourself all locked up in summer 2021? Didn't go anywhere? No restaurants? No bars? No theatres? No parties? No travel of any kind? I guess I dreamt the part where those impediments were lifted and restrictions were almost nil.
 
zang said:
Because you have no leg to stand on here. Rights and Freedoms in the charter don't exist to interpret as you wish. They generally have limited scope. They are not inalienable rights, regardless of your poor interpretation. A lot of them protect things you are (gender, race, sexual orientation, etc.).

Right to livelihood does not mean you have a right to any job you want, nor the right to dictate your job description and requirements to your employer. Even though rights exist to protect those with medical conditions (something you are), an accommodation only need be made if it can be considered reasonable. An epileptic can never be a commercial airline pilot. And it's not discrimination to say an epileptic cannot be a commercial pilot. Likewise, no one has a right to earn a living as a street cocaine dealer.

Vaccines aren't something you are though. They're something you choose. Big, big difference.

Aside from that, if an employer implements new health and safety requirements, that's fully within their rights. An employer can totally fire you if you fail to renew a required qualification, or a new job qualification, within a reasonable amount of time. Some jobs even already have vaccine requirements (!), like health care workers in a hospital setting, who generally have Flu, TB and other mandatory vaccinations. Exemptions of any sort are quite rare.

Who's stopping our freedom of movement, by the way? I have a friend in Costa Rica right now. My sister just came back from there herself. Hell, there's a convoy of trucks that has been moving unimpeded across the country. So who's stopped them from going where they want to go?


So, you kept yourself all locked up in summer 2021? Didn't go anywhere? No restaurants? No bars? No theatres? No parties? No travel of any kind? I guess I dreamt the part where those impediments were lifted and restrictions were almost nil.
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Thank you for providing a list of what rights you think people deserve and the limits on our freedoms. Yes our Charter is limited. It doesn’t include property rights and the notwithstanding clause gives provinces an out.

Get vaccinated, but ending restrictions is a choice we have to make at some point. Covid isn’t going away and even vaccinated people get it. For almost all of them the symptoms are flu-like. We need to find our way back to normal life and trust people to take precautions in accordance with their own assessments of risk. Otherwise there is no guarantee that restrictions, mandates, and digital passports won’t continue indefinitely.

If we’re not willing to demand our freedoms, they can easily be removed.
 
gibsonm said:
Get vaccinated, but ending restrictions is a choice we have to make at some point. Covid isn’t going away and even vaccinated people get it. For almost all of them the symptoms are flu-like. We need to find our way back to normal life and trust people to take precautions in accordance with their own assessments of risk. Otherwise there is no guarantee that restrictions, mandates, and digital passports won’t continue indefinitely.
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The Province is literally starting this in less than a week.
 
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