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Thank you for providing a list of what rights you think people deserve and the limits on our freedoms. Yes our Charter is limited. It doesn’t include property rights and the notwithstanding clause gives provinces an out.

Get vaccinated, but ending restrictions is a choice we have to make at some point. Covid isn’t going away and even vaccinated people get it. For almost all of them the symptoms are flu-like. We need to find our way back to normal life and trust people to take precautions in accordance with their own assessments of risk. Otherwise there is no guarantee that restrictions, mandates, and digital passports won’t continue indefinitely.

If we’re not willing to demand our freedoms, they can easily be removed.
Though I fear it is an uphill struggle, you need to think a bit more carefully. If a person deciding not to get vaccinated ONLY affected their health and their life I would say "be my guest, take the risk". However, the problem is that our hospitals are filled with lots of people who have covid and who did not get vaccinated (and they are generally sicker than those who did get vaccinated). This means that people (both vaccinated and unvaccinated ) are having urgent but not critical operations postponed as the hospitals and ICUs are full and, in some cases, their operations and tests will be postponed so long they become urgent or are 'too late'. If your argument was "we should build more hospitals and hire more staff so that we can cope with FAR more patients" I could understand (though not agree with) your views. You appear to be saying "people should not be forced to get vaccinated and it's just too bad that this means other people who have weaker immune systems may get covid and many sick people will have operations postponed and may die and/or suffer." Have I got your pov right?
 
Get vaccinated, but ending restrictions is a choice we have to make at some point. Covid isn’t going away and even vaccinated people get it. For almost all of them the symptoms are flu-like. We need to find our way back to normal life and trust people to take precautions in accordance with their own assessments of risk. Otherwise there is no guarantee that restrictions, mandates, and digital passports won’t continue indefinitely.

If we’re not willing to demand our freedoms, they can easily be removed.
They can be removed at any time, for that matter. And, we actually have more rights and freedoms than we did when the charter was written into law in the 80s, but I digress.

I'll remind you that you are demanding an end to restrictions immediately; while ICUs are packed with patients and we're having some of the highest death rates during the entire pandemic. That means no vaccine mandates. No mask mandate. No capacity restrictions. Full open everything.

But okay, let's end them today. Then what? Are you qualified to take over as an ICU nurse or doctor when the hospitals are saturated with every antivaxxer who's suddenly able to dine indoors again? or go to a movie theatre? packed sports event? Are you qualified? Are you ready to watch unvaccinated kids die because Paediatric ICUs are full of grown-ass adults who were more concerned with their "freedoms" than the general health of the rest of society? Because let me tell you, a LOT more people will die (and we don't triage out morons). Omicron may be "mild" if you're vaccinated and boosted, but it's certainly not conclusively so if you aren't (the death rates in the US point to this not being so mild). There are at least 2.4 million people in this province who have one shot or less. And that doesn't include the under-5s who still can't get squat. That's still a hell of a lot of people vulnerable to a very rapidly transmitted, potentially deadly disease. It says a lot that you're willing to drop mandates if adults can get fully vaccinated (because you are one, apparently), but it's fine to let kids face this full on without protection.

And FFS, I wish one of you anti-vax/anti-mandate folk would take a second to look into Long Covid and the estimates of 20-40% of people having *long-lasting* symptoms, POTS (Postural orthostatic tachycardia syndrome), Kidney/Lung/Heart/Brain damage, permanent loss of smell, etc. "Letting it rip" means a lot of people potentially left disabled in some sense or another. But sure, it has a "survivability rate of 97%".

Please stop the "This is all gonna end up permanent if we don't stop it now"-BS. If governments wanted it to be permanent, it would've been done so in April 2020. Instead—golly-gee—we've seen tides of restrictions wax and wane with case numbers. But I suppose your argument doesn't work if you don't try and stoke conservative fear fires of "our freedoms will be taken away!"
 
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Though I fear it is an uphill struggle, you need to think a bit more carefully. If a person deciding not to get vaccinated ONLY affected their health and their life I would say "be my guest, take the risk". However, the problem is that our hospitals are filled with lots of people who have covid and who did not get vaccinated (and they are generally sicker than those who did get vaccinated). This means that people (both vaccinated and unvaccinated ) are having urgent but not critical operations postponed as the hospitals and ICUs are full and, in some cases, their operations and tests will be postponed so long they become urgent or are 'too late'. If your argument was "we should build more hospitals and hire more staff so that we can cope with FAR more patients" I could understand (though not agree with) your views. You appear to be saying "people should not be forced to get vaccinated and it's just too bad that this means other people who have weaker immune systems may get covid and many sick people will have operations postponed and may die and/or suffer." Have I got your pov right?
People should get vaccinated. To what degree is it reasonable to compel or force people to do so? There will be some extreme holdouts willing to sacrifice their lives or go into hiding, however ridiculous you may think that is. Already people have lost jobs and accepted fewer freedoms to avoid vaccination. With 90% of adults and most 5-12 year-olds vaccinated (most children have mild symptoms or are asymptomatic), is it necessary to go harder on mandates when we know that Covid still spreads among the vaccinated and in some cases they too end up in ICU’s? Going harder might increase the vaccinated population by a few percent, but resentment and distrust could cause other, bigger problems. I think we’ve gone far enough with mandates. Our ICU’s still aren’t full and the wave is passing.

In the bigger picture we need to learn to live with Covid without closing businesses, forcing students online, and racking up further debt. The non-Covid costs are unsustainably high. A hopeless malaise has descended over society. Restrictions and masking have gone on so long. Years of normal child development and school/college/university experiences have been compromised beyond redemption. Healthy social lives, physical activities, and community activities lost.

Life is short. Requiring so many people to give up so much when there are strong protective tools available for the vulnerable (vaccination, masks, treatments) reaches a point of imbalance where the cure — restrictions — is worse than the disease.

Life is full of risk. We can hide and take unnatural measures to deal with one health risk or we can focus on treating serious illness and making protections available to those who want them.

We do need to rethink our healthcare. I don’t think endlessly testing and isolating asymptomatic people and their household members is sustainable. We can’t run organizations this way. Take advantage of the protections available to you according to your health profile. If you’re sick stay home until you get better. If you’re seriously ill go to the hospital. Hospitals, focus on treating seriously ill people, whether or not they have Covid. Taper and end restrictions — soon. Other jurisdictions are doing so and enjoying a much better quality of life.
 
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To what degree is it reasonable to compel or force people to do so?
To the degree where the ability to participate in wider society is cut off.

There will be some extreme holdouts willing to sacrifice their lives or go into hiding, however ridiculous you may think that is. Already people have lost jobs and accepted fewer freedoms to avoid vaccination.
Good riddance, play stupid games win stupid prizes.

Life is short.
Agreed, but unless you're suggesting we cut off the unvaccinated and deny them healthcare (which I'm 100% for), this is where we are.
 
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To the degree where the ability to participate in wider society is cut off.


Good riddance, play stupid games win stupid prizes.


Agreed, but unless you're suggesting we cut off the unvaccinated and deny them healthcare (which I'm 100% for), this is where we are.
Listen to yourself. This is the length you’ll go to to achieve health purity. Such measures were implemented to achieve “racial purity.”
 
In the bigger picture we need to learn to live with Covid without closing businesses, forcing students online, and racking up further debt. The non-Covid costs are unsustainably high. A hopeless malaise has descended over society. Restrictions and masking have gone on so long.
yeah man , in 2019 i was working so much with overtime ready to buy my first house for $800K , then covid came March 2020 I got laid off and couldn't get a mortgage , finally after in Nov 2021 I had work go back to normal & i had both vaccines, but then same houses were selling for 1.1 million , then end of Dec 2021 back to being laid off again because of new stupid lock downs & Omnicron, now those same houses are going for 1.3 million . Office workers will never understand, they had their dreams come of working from home and not having to commute to work. maybe by the time things go back to normal again I will be priced out and they will come up with more dam lockdowns
 
Listen to yourself. This is the length you’ll go to to achieve health purity. Such measures were implemented to achieve “racial purity.”
Uh, the unvaxxed are the ones literally calling themselves “purebloods”.

And I dare you to research the connections between 20th century eugenics and those left disabled from the 1918 flu epidemic.
 
yeah man , in 2019 i was working so much with overtime ready to buy my first house for $800K , then covid came March 2020 I got laid off and couldn't get a mortgage , finally after in Nov 2021 I had work go back to normal & i had both vaccines, but then same houses were selling for 1.1 million , then end of Dec 2021 back to being laid off again because of new stupid lock downs & Omnicron, now those same houses are going for 1.3 million . Office workers will never understand, they had their dreams come of working from home and not having to commute to work. maybe by the time things go back to normal again I will be priced out and they will come up with more dam lockdowns
housing price inflation was happening long before Covid.
 
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housing price inflation was happening long before Covid.
of course , but prices got steady in 2018 & 2019 , then covid came and they had to lower rates , and you can't buy a house and enjoy lower rates if you get laid off from both your jobs due to lockdowns
 
I wonder if Elon actually knows what the truckers are protesting. For that matter, I wonder if the truckers themselves do. The answers keep changing.
They are protesting that their freedom to travel across Canada and hold assemblies and rallies and express political views have all been taken away from them.
That's why they are.... freely traveling across Canada, and freely holding assemblies and rallies, and freely expressing political views, all with breathless free coverage from the media, so that everyone knows all those freedoms are gone... errr wait.
 
I wonder if Elon actually knows what the truckers are protesting. For that matter, I wonder if the truckers themselves do. The answers keep changing.

Oh he knows. He's moving Tesla headquarters from California ( a state with Covid restrictions) to Texas ( a state with no Covid restrictions)

Elon doesn't care about his workers, even long before Covid hit, his Tesla factories were hell holes. He's the Amazon of the automotive industry.
 

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