[TOareaFan]

But alas, Toronto will never be this, given the fact we haven't seen an office building go up North of (hmm, College) and south of Eglinton in ... forever ... too bad ...

Maybe if corporate taxes were not so high then there would be more business.

Are those taxes significantly lower once you go south of college.......seems to me there have been enough new offices built lately to suggest that taxes are not the only factor in office construction.

 

[taal]

Are those taxes significantly lower once you go south of college.......seems to me there have been enough new offices built lately to suggest that taxes are not the only factor in office construction.

Of course their not ! Taxes are fixed throughout the city. Some new developments get some credits. The operating expenses, including things like tax and heating / cleaning / other such fees is generally higher in AAA/A building downtown due to the extra expenses, but the tax is the same.

The difference is there is demand to be downtown, so taxes are less of a factor. To locate downtown companies generally expect to be paying more gross tax (i.e. factoring in tax and the net rental rates), but in the outer fridges of Toronto (even the outer core I imagine) the incentive is a lot less when you can get property just outside the city for lower gross rental rates.

The biggest indicator of this is the fact property values in the 905 (along Hi-way 7 / Airport area) are generally higher then many areas in the outer 416 !

 

[TOareaFan]

Are those taxes significantly lower once you go south of college.......seems to me there have been enough new offices built lately to suggest that taxes are not the only factor in office construction.

Of course their not ! Taxes are fixed throughout the city. Some new developments get some credits. The operating expenses, including things like tax and heating / cleaning / other such fees is generally higher in AAA/A building downtown due to the extra expenses, but the tax is the same.

The difference is there is demand to be downtown, so taxes are less of a factor. To locate downtown companies generally expect to be paying more gross tax (i.e. factoring in tax and the net rental rates), but in the outer fridges of Toronto (even the outer core I imagine) the incentive is a lot less when you can get property just outside the city for lower gross rental rates.

The biggest indicator of this is the fact property values in the 905 (along Hi-way 7 / Airport area) are generally higher then many areas in the outer 416 !

Sorry, my question was rhetorical and I thought that was clear.

 

[sixrings]

I really think woodbine live had a good proposal... if you added MGM to the woodbine project it would really make it a bigger attraction. If all the entertainment and shopping was built directly at woodbine the mall could be redeveloped into townhouses and condos.... Anyways check out the video for a reminder what they were proposing... The video is a lil scewed with how many ppl they have in it but I could imagine it would be pretty busy.

http://www.woodbinelive.com/index.cfm?page=projectvideo

BTW add a LRT on islington that spurs at rexdale one way to woodbine, then the airport and the other to steeles...

 

[CN Tower]

The casino is going to be at the Ontario Place grounds. I thought this was common knowledge by now?

 

[sixrings]

boo

 

[taal]

Sorry, my question was rhetorical and I thought that was clear.

Right I see that now, but by second paragraph is still relevant in explaining why taxes are less of a factor downtown compared to the rest of the 416. Even then though, if taxes were lower would we see even more construction downtown ?

 

[TOareaFan]

Right I see that now, but by second paragraph is still relevant in explaining why taxes are less of a factor downtown compared to the rest of the 416. Even then though, if taxes were lower would we see even more construction downtown ?

It is difficult to say we would have more if commercial taxes were lowered. Perhaps but not significantly. At the end of the day, what drives it is the supply of large block tenants willing/able to pay the overall operating costs (of which taxes are just one component) of office space in the city. So, to some extent, higher taxes limit the total gross rent a landlord can charge and the limit on gross rent does effect the overall economics of new construction (ie. if taxes were 1 cent psf lower, then perhaps net rent - the money that really goes to the landlord - could maybe be 1 cent psf higher).

I think what really effects things is that there are some tenants that need to be downtown and there are some that don't. The biggest factor in favour of downtown/core office is that all of our transportation networks are aimed at Union Station.....so it is easier to get workers to your site down here than anywhere else. Other areas in the city do not have that advantage and, therefore, perhaps the higher taxes has a greater effect.

 

[coolcanadian]

Toronto just doesn't need a casino. If the city wants one they will cry they need more money for it but what will a casino do? Suck money out of the people that live there reducing the quality of life. no thanks

There is no reason to debate the pros and cons of a casino. A casino is being built in the GTA no matter what. If not in Toronto, then somewhere nearby. If you think that a casino will lower the quality of life ( I would have to disagree ), then you should consider moving? Im joking, but my point is: the social affects of a casino ( whatever they are ) will be felt in Toronto even if the complex is not built downtown.

Basically, we get to decide if we want a multi billion dollar resort/entertainment complex, or a smaller, dull casino.

Either way gamblers will gamble. I would love to make Woodbine Live a huge complex with the MGM casino, but I don't think that will happen.

 

[Markham VIP]

Markham Vip ... I just don't see it ... I think one casino in the GTA is all we'll get and need frankly. Having said that I don't think the one in Markham will be small if it is indeed going there, OLG has no interesting in building a small facility ... it'll be large.

Why can't you see two casinos in the GTA?
The reports are that a monster casino resort on the waterfront would only be 5%-10% casino. How much of that space will be taken up with tourists? Can all the residents of the GTA go play there every saturday night too? The GTA is one of the largest markets in North America, there is no question that two casinos can both co-exist and be successful. I can envision the resort casino in Toronto catering more to the downtown Toronto tourist industry (especially the resort itself), and the casino in Markham catering more the actual residents of the GTA.

This casino is meant for the residents of the GTA....not Toronto tourism.
The OLG's border casinos have seen a decline in revenues mainly due to the increased competition from casinos along American border cities.
The purpose of the new modernization strategy of the OLG is not to increase Toronto tourism....it is to bring the casinos closer to the people who play them (i.e the residents of the GTA).
It is absolutely possible for the GTA to have two casinos.
I think Markham will get this one, and Toronto should purse it's monster resort casino in a smart way. Take your time and do it right. Have all the referendums and studies that you want to ensure that the best location is chosen. Also, make sure you iron out a good deal with the American investors and don't let them turn you into suckers.

 

[Markham VIP]

I have some bad news for all you who want THIS casino in Toronto.......

The plan to modernize the OLG is located in the Provincial Liberal budget.
If Dalton McGuinty is not able to pass the budget, then it will force an election and the plans for the casino in the GTA would have been delayed.
This scenario would have favoured Toronto as it would have allowed more time to get organized.

However, recent reports today are that the Liberals have struck a deal with the NDP....and the Provincal Budget is expected to pass tomorrow.

 

[jn_12]

Why can't you see two casinos in the GTA?
The reports are that a monster casino resort on the waterfront would only be 5%-10% casino. How much of that space will be taken up with tourists? Can all the residents of the GTA go play there every saturday night too? The GTA is one of the largest markets in North America, there is no question that two casinos can both co-exist and be successful. I can envision the resort casino in Toronto catering more to the downtown Toronto tourist industry (especially the resort itself), and the casino in Markham catering more the actual residents of the GTA.

This casino is meant for the residents of the GTA....not Toronto tourism.
The OLG's border casinos have seen a decline in revenues mainly due to the increased competition from casinos along American border cities.
The purpose of the new modernization strategy of the OLG is not to increase Toronto tourism....it is to bring the casinos closer to the people who play them (i.e the residents of the GTA).
It is absolutely possible for the GTA to have two casinos.
I think Markham will get this one, and Toronto should purse it's monster resort casino in a smart way. Take your time and do it right. Have all the referendums and studies that you want to ensure that the best location is chosen. Also, make sure you iron out a good deal with the American investors and don't let them turn you into suckers.

If (and that's a huge IF) there was a chance that there would ever be two casinos in the GTA, it certainly won't happen immediately. Why would they build two without knowing if the demand for one will be sufficient? At best, they'll build one, see how it does and then go from there.

Although, knowing what we know about casinos I still have no clue why we'd want one, never mind two in the region.

 

[Towered]

As for Ontario Place not having any NIMBYs, you're wrong.

I don't live anywhere close to Ontario Place but I will be screaming my head off louder than any NIMBY if McGuinty tries to turn Ontario Place into a casino. I love Ontario Place and its futuristic floating pods, along with the historic Cinesphere. To this day, I still marvel at it's architectural awesomeness and beautiful setting. That is my favourite place on our waterfront and I am not going to let my Ontario Place be destroyed that easily. I am not alone in that regard. There are MANY people in Toronto who love the architecture and setting of Ontario Place (if not the actual attractions, which could easily be upgraded) and want to see it preserved as a place for the whole family, so in that sense, OP has many NIMBYs all over Toronto and even the GTA.

I want to see Ontario Place become the amazing park Dalton McGuinty promised us. I'm holding him to his word. (and so should all of you)

So many people on this site have trashed Toronto claiming we don't have enough tourist attractions to compete with other major cities but then you're the first ones to want to trash one of them, instead of trying to make it better. Why not keep Ontario Place for everyone and put the casino in another location, thereby adding to our tourist attractions. You can have your cake and eat it too. It just takes some compromise, to make everyone happy.

Just to be clear, I love the design of Ontario Place - the pods and cinesphere in particular must be preserved as is, so I'm not at all advocating that a casino or anything else should replace them. That being said however, there's plenty of land on those huge parking lots, especially at the Ex, for a large casino, and I'm ok with that as long as it's thoroughly urban in design.

 

[Automation Gallery]

I still have no clue why we'd want one, never mind two in the region.

Lol....and if i was a betting man and get one, id say the City of Toronto gets it first over the town of Markham.

 

[mdparker]

Just curious... How many of this proposed project's opponents have been to Vegas and seen the various MGM properties in person? Better yet, how many have been to Vegas in the last few years and walked through newer (and quite stunning) complexes like Aria and the new Wynn Resort? This is not a rhetorical question, I'd honestly like to know...