I would definitely vote against it in a referendum because I could not in all good conscience vote for it. But actively campaign against it? Probably not
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Lenser
Senior Member
I'm in the same boat. I don't want to see a casino in downtown Toronto and would vote against it in a referendum. But I wouldn't campaign against it, especially if the majority sentiment appeared to be for it - no use tilting at windmills.
Much as I'd like to see yet more cool new towers going up in the city, there are other players, other plans - ones which don't involve casinos. I am not convinced that their presence confers a net benefit to the surrounding area. I would rather not see the city being held hostage to a casino developer promising that, if the casino component fails to pass muster, nothing at all will get built.
Much as I'd like to see yet more cool new towers going up in the city, there are other players, other plans - ones which don't involve casinos. I am not convinced that their presence confers a net benefit to the surrounding area. I would rather not see the city being held hostage to a casino developer promising that, if the casino component fails to pass muster, nothing at all will get built.
johnwood
Active Member
Toronto residents need a new toy to play with so build the casio downtown, because the sports teams, Jays, Raptors, and Leafs don't cut it anymore!
taal
Senior Member
Personally, I could care less for the Casino, but I'd love to see an expansion of the convention center, I think that would do wonder for Toronto's business tourism scene, if a casino expedites that, great.
Also, the indirect benefits are appealing, that is, lets assume its the largest casino in the the surrounding 500/1000 square KM area, it could bring more tourism downtown, helping all the other museums / retail strips in the city.
Also, the indirect benefits are appealing, that is, lets assume its the largest casino in the the surrounding 500/1000 square KM area, it could bring more tourism downtown, helping all the other museums / retail strips in the city.
Automation Gallery
Superstar
I guess Adam Vaughan is dead set against any Casino in the hood
Councillor, OLG chair bicker over placement of possible Toronto ...
Toronto’s first casino public consultation session is set for Wednesday – but that didn’t stop city councillor Adam Vaughan and Ontario Lottery and Gaming Corporation chair Paul Godfrey from publicly debating the project a day early.
Mr. Vaughan seized on that remark and sent a letter to Ontario Finance Minister Dwight Duncan. In the letter, Mr. Vaughan said downtown Toronto is home to hundreds of thousands of people. If residential neighbourhoods are not appropriate for casinos, he reasoned, a casino should not be built downtown.
“These communities deserve not only to be recognized by your government and its appointees, but their rights and quality of life deserve the same consideration as Mr. Godfrey’s neighbours and friends,†Mr. Vaughan wrote.
When asked about Mr. Vaughan’s letter Tuesday afternoon, Mr. Godfrey reiterated his point.
“I said certainly I wouldn’t want one in my neighbourhood either. We’re not sticking it in a residential zone,†he said.
He called his and Mr. Vaughan’s definitions of neighbourhoods “exactly different.â€
“I live in a residential neighbourhood. It has what I would describe as either single-family homes or townhouses or places where people live. But I wouldn’t describe all of downtown as a neighbourhood. Downtown has stores and offices and places of entertainment and restaurants,†he said, adding that’s why there are various zoning classifications
More......http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...nt-of-possible-toronto-casino/article7067274/
Councillor, OLG chair bicker over placement of possible Toronto ...
Toronto’s first casino public consultation session is set for Wednesday – but that didn’t stop city councillor Adam Vaughan and Ontario Lottery and Gaming Corporation chair Paul Godfrey from publicly debating the project a day early.
Mr. Vaughan seized on that remark and sent a letter to Ontario Finance Minister Dwight Duncan. In the letter, Mr. Vaughan said downtown Toronto is home to hundreds of thousands of people. If residential neighbourhoods are not appropriate for casinos, he reasoned, a casino should not be built downtown.
“These communities deserve not only to be recognized by your government and its appointees, but their rights and quality of life deserve the same consideration as Mr. Godfrey’s neighbours and friends,†Mr. Vaughan wrote.
When asked about Mr. Vaughan’s letter Tuesday afternoon, Mr. Godfrey reiterated his point.
“I said certainly I wouldn’t want one in my neighbourhood either. We’re not sticking it in a residential zone,†he said.
He called his and Mr. Vaughan’s definitions of neighbourhoods “exactly different.â€
“I live in a residential neighbourhood. It has what I would describe as either single-family homes or townhouses or places where people live. But I wouldn’t describe all of downtown as a neighbourhood. Downtown has stores and offices and places of entertainment and restaurants,†he said, adding that’s why there are various zoning classifications
More......http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...nt-of-possible-toronto-casino/article7067274/
ShonTron
Moderator
I see it as another example of Paul Godfrey's snake oil salesmanship. Vaughan and Mike Layton are right to call bullshit on Godfrey's hard sell remarks.
As I said elsewhere, I've been agnostic about a new downtown casino, but the deception and hard sell tactics (by someone who helped to stick taxpayers with a way over budget $600M stadium, but bought it back for $25M 15 years later) really are turning me off.
As I said elsewhere, I've been agnostic about a new downtown casino, but the deception and hard sell tactics (by someone who helped to stick taxpayers with a way over budget $600M stadium, but bought it back for $25M 15 years later) really are turning me off.
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Automation Gallery
Superstar
Either way, hard sell or not.......there will be one in the GTA.
Really dont know what all the fuss is about
“The city’s got to vote yes or no and then they’ve got to decide if the site we pick is appropriate. And if they don’t, all we have to do is go to Markham, Vaughan, or Mississauga or something else. There will be one in the GTA. If it’s not in downtown Toronto, it will be somewhere else,” he said.
Really dont know what all the fuss is about
“The city’s got to vote yes or no and then they’ve got to decide if the site we pick is appropriate. And if they don’t, all we have to do is go to Markham, Vaughan, or Mississauga or something else. There will be one in the GTA. If it’s not in downtown Toronto, it will be somewhere else,” he said.
Tuscani01
Senior Member
The funny thing about Mr. Godfrey's comment is the fact that he was invited to the CityPlace Residents' Association Town Hall last night to explain the plan and benefits to the neighbourhood, and he did not show up.
Had he bothered to actually show up, he would have seen that a group representing 10,000+ residents and businesses in the neighbourhood overwhelmingly voted NO to a casino in the neighbourhood.
Had he bothered to actually show up, he would have seen that a group representing 10,000+ residents and businesses in the neighbourhood overwhelmingly voted NO to a casino in the neighbourhood.
RC8
Senior Member
The vote was something like 110 against and one in favour.
Adam Vaughan's best point with regards to the casino, I think, is that businessmen who work in the financial district do not like the idea. A megacasino where it is being proposed will very negatively affect business operations in downtown Toronto.
We need to unite against this proposal. If it goes in Markham then that's Markham putting all their eggs on that brittle basket. Downtown Toronto does not need this at all, and those of us who live or work downtown should be protecting our neighbourhood from this poor attempt at city building. We'll be better off without it one way or another.
taal
Senior Member
BurlOak
Senior Member
Should we listen to this neighbourhood, just as when the majority of NE Scarborough voted to scrap Transit City we should have listened to them.
Tuscani01
Senior Member
OLG has specified that they will not build a Casino in a community that does not want it, so yes the neighbourhoods voice should be heard.
Automation Gallery
Superstar
Off course we know that many downtown folks dont care about any revenues from a Casino for infastructure, cause they believe that homeowners and businesses should be paying for all that.
..But lets say that there is 100-200 million bucks given towards Toronto infrastructure yearly from the OLG and people in North York, Etobicoke, and Scarboro would like one instead of having their taxes increased...what happens there.
I believe the only fair way is to have a referendum on the Casino, and have all residents of this city have there say, also locate one where it makes sense
For goodness sake... what harm can a Casino really do to a community or neighbourhood if its located in the Portlands
..But lets say that there is 100-200 million bucks given towards Toronto infrastructure yearly from the OLG and people in North York, Etobicoke, and Scarboro would like one instead of having their taxes increased...what happens there.
I believe the only fair way is to have a referendum on the Casino, and have all residents of this city have there say, also locate one where it makes sense
For goodness sake... what harm can a Casino really do to a community or neighbourhood if its located in the Portlands
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Lenser
Senior Member
Existing businesses in the Portlands may not be as welcoming as you think. Cement production and film production (Pinewood is presently in its second expansion phase and other ancillary film and television businesses are also located there - special effects and lighting/rigging, for example) are probably the two major businesses which may not necessarily welcome the arrival of a massive casino/entertainment complex. The Portlands also borders neighbourhoods... Leslieville/Riverdale is above it, and Corktown's right off of Cherry Street. The Beaches are to the east. Besides which, it's only a matter of time before we see residential development there, especially along the length of Cherry Street (for a start). We are not talking about some remote island far from Toronto, where the placement of a large casino operation would have minimal impact on the area. The long-term plans for the Portlands must be taken into consideration.
Numbers are also being thrown about fast and loose here. 100-200 million bucks? Sounds pretty optimistic. What are you basing your numbers on? The one I hear more commonly is 50 million. But it's also not a slam dunk that there's a net benefit for the city in the realization of a downtown casino.
In any case, it seems that the big casino concerns heavily favour a more central location - better transportation links, better visibility. It will be an interesting fight to watch. Probably more than a few bets are being placed on it, too.
Numbers are also being thrown about fast and loose here. 100-200 million bucks? Sounds pretty optimistic. What are you basing your numbers on? The one I hear more commonly is 50 million. But it's also not a slam dunk that there's a net benefit for the city in the realization of a downtown casino.
In any case, it seems that the big casino concerns heavily favour a more central location - better transportation links, better visibility. It will be an interesting fight to watch. Probably more than a few bets are being placed on it, too.
jaycola
Active Member
Toronto should ask for $50 million off the top if it's located in the city, annually. That comes off of gross revenues and does not include property taxes.
Then negotiate a plan with both upper tier governments. Pst and Hst from direct construction costs (not for independent consultants or advisors...we don't want to encourage that) is further granted to the city and directed for capital improvements. Maybe $100 million from that during construction? Minimum $50 million annually for the inconvenience of having a casino in the city is a pretty start.
I would rather people get behind the project and work to make it something special and worthwhile, rather than put up obstacles and stifle the entire project.
This really belongs downtown, The Ex is still my first choice. With a new modernized Ontario Place adjacent to it, a modern concept of truly groundbreaking architecture and design would be a welcome addition to the area.
I'd like to see them take this as a location. It is as remote a location, relative to "neighbourhoods" as we have. You could still hold the Ex pretty much as usual as you can see from the photo. Deck over Lakeshore and make best use of the land.
Then negotiate a plan with both upper tier governments. Pst and Hst from direct construction costs (not for independent consultants or advisors...we don't want to encourage that) is further granted to the city and directed for capital improvements. Maybe $100 million from that during construction? Minimum $50 million annually for the inconvenience of having a casino in the city is a pretty start.
I would rather people get behind the project and work to make it something special and worthwhile, rather than put up obstacles and stifle the entire project.
This really belongs downtown, The Ex is still my first choice. With a new modernized Ontario Place adjacent to it, a modern concept of truly groundbreaking architecture and design would be a welcome addition to the area.
I'd like to see them take this as a location. It is as remote a location, relative to "neighbourhoods" as we have. You could still hold the Ex pretty much as usual as you can see from the photo. Deck over Lakeshore and make best use of the land.