News   GLOBAL  |  Apr 02, 2020
 8.4K     0 
News   GLOBAL  |  Apr 01, 2020
 39K     0 
News   GLOBAL  |  Apr 01, 2020
 4.7K     0 

Not here to defend PG......But how did the public lose half a billion on SkyDome?

As the years wear on, my recollection gets fuzzier but was it not something like:

$600 million cost (which included, amongst others, the stadium, the skywalk, john street bridge)

$200 million of that was private sector money

$400 million was the net public cost.

Subsequently the hotel was severed and sold for (if I recall correctly....$25 mil.....could be off on that)

Then the province sold the stadium for $150 mil.

Even setting the hotel sale aside (cause I really am not sure what that brought in) $250 mil is a lot less than half a billion and we got a couple of nifty bits of infrastructure from that so you might, even allocate some of that loss to those.

Did it lose money? Yes......big, brand new "out there" stuff sometimes(always?) has cost surprises........half a billion? I don't think so.

You are correct that the sale of Skydome by the province received a purchase price of about $150 million. Skydome was subsequently bought out of bankruptcy for $86 million and, most recently, purchased by Rogers for $25 million. You're probably correct about the $250 million total loss of government money.

I think the complaint about Paul Godfrey, in particular, is that he was instrumental in getting the Skydome built, largely with public money and at a cost that was nearly four times the original budget. Subsequently, Godfrey was president of the Blue Jays when its parent company (Rogers) bought the Skydome for $25 million. Thus, not only did he demonstrate his apparent gross incompetence as a planner/executor of entertainment venues, but he also subsequently benefitted from his own previous incompetence.
 
You are correct that the sale of Skydome by the province received a purchase price of about $150 million. Skydome was subsequently bought out of bankruptcy for $86 million and, most recently, purchased by Rogers for $25 million. You're probably correct about the $250 million total loss of government money.

I think the complaint about Paul Godfrey, in particular, is that he was instrumental in getting the Skydome built, largely with public money and at a cost that was nearly four times the original budget. Subsequently, Godfrey was president of the Blue Jays when its parent company (Rogers) bought the Skydome for $25 million. Thus, not only did he demonstrate his apparent gross incompetence as a planner/executor of entertainment venues, but he also subsequently benefitted from his own previous incompetence.

sure, and again I am not defending him, but when Rogers bought the Dome it was two or 3 owners removed from the public purse....maybe I don't get it ....is the theory that he orchestrated a big conspiracy to build it, bankrupt it, have it trade a few times and then, knowing he would end up working for the Jays, buy it for a song? ;)

Even the "Rogers got it for $25 mil" thing is not totally accurate because they subsequently spent a lot of money redoing it ($50 mil comes to mind but, again, I am not researching this just relying on a failing memory) so their adjusted cost base is not $50 mil.

Anyway, what's past is past and, I guess, the alternative was to just have them keep playing at the Ex.
 
The Globe and Mail: Onex chief game to invest in proposed Toronto casino scheme

Gerald Schwartz, one of Canada’s richest men and most prolific deal-makers, says he is “enthusiastic†about proposals to build a casino in Toronto, adding his name to a growing list of suitors for the country’s most ambitious gaming opportunity.

The head of Toronto-based buyout firm Onex Corp. already has experience in the industry, most notably as the owner of the Tropicana hotel and casino in Las Vegas. As part of that deal, Onex gained a veteran partner in the industry, casino impresario Alex Yemenidjian, a past long-time leader of MGM Grand’s casino operation in Las Vegas. Here in Canada, Onex also owns Casino ABS, which operates four Alberta casinos in Edmonton, Lethbridge and Calgary.
* * *
Mr. Schwartz’s interest in launching a Toronto casino comes as major U.S. operators already are scouting sites in the city and sending executives to meet with Toronto Mayor Rob Ford and selected councillors, some of whom will consider a pair of anti-casino motions at City Hall Monday.

If Onex pursues a bid, it already has two known competitors: Caesars Entertainment and MGM Resorts International, which is already bending ears at City Hall.

James Murren, the chairman and chief executive officer of MGM, and two other senior MGM executives paid a courtesy call to the mayor, Councillor Doug Ford, and two of the mayor’s staffers, on April 30. The MGM team also spoke with Councillor Michael Thompson, chair of the economic development committee, the same day and Councillor Mark Grimes, the chair of Exhibition Place, the next day.

“They just said how much they love Toronto and they’d love to be a part of the process,†Mr. Grimes said.

Meanwhile, Caesars dispatched a development team to the city last week to check out potential sites for a resort casino.
 
The best way to do this would be a contest. Let MGM, Caesers, Onex, all submit a design once a location has been selected. The design criteria would be something like architecture, outdoor spaces, attractions, retail, innovation, etc. etc. Then WE can decide on which proposal best suits Toronto's needs. This would put pressure on the developers to create something spectacular and not just mediocre. Something akin to Absolute Towers in Mississauga. Designs were submitted and the best one was chosen and what we were left with is two beautiful towers that everyone appreciates!
 
Agreed. If this is going to go to a referendum during the next election anyway, why not go to the referendum with one or two actual proposals instead of having people vote in abstract.
 
The Globe and Mail: Woodbine wouldn’t survive loss of slots to downtown casino: track executive

The Toronto racetrack that hosts the Queen’s Plate can’t survive if its slot machines are removed to make way for a glitzy new casino on the city’s waterfront, according to a senior executive from the racetrack’s parent company.

“If the slots were removed from Woodbine you would see the end of Woodbine Racetrack in Toronto,†said Jane Holmes, the vice-president of corporate affairs for Woodbine Entertainment Group.

Closing Woodbine would mean a loss of nearly 6,000 jobs, she added.

Ms. Holmes spoke to the mayor’s executive committee Monday as it debated two anti-casino motions – one that would bar a casino from Ontario Place, another that would prohibit a casino without a referendum during the next municipal election in 2014.

Mayor Rob Ford, who supports a casino because of the jobs it would bring to the city, told reporters he plans to ask the committee to send both motions off for a staff report.

* * *

It’s too early to say whether Toronto hosting a casino somewhere other than Woodbine would mean the racetrack’s slots would be removed.

Councillor Doug Ford, whose ward includes the racetrack, said Monday that a small casino at Woodbine could co-exist with a larger gaming complex elsewhere in the city.

“I believe so,†he said. “I believe a little Windsor-style casino [could work] out there. Not a big one, but a little one. A little room with some tables in it – absolutely.â€

Note: The Windsor casino has 100,000 sq. feet of space, 80 tables and 3,000 slot machines. The current Woodbine casino has 2,000 slot machines.
 
Who cares about Woodbine - it's in the middle of nowhere.

That is not a good attitude to have. If something like Woodbine Live was built, it would bring people too the area. Wonderland is "in the middle of nowhere" too, and attracts millions each year.

If a great project was build here, it could be something great.

WoodbineLive.gif


However, I already said what I would like to see on previous pages. Maybe a casino can be a small part of the new OP.

I actually think it's great that so many companies are interested. We know of 3 so far, but I'm sure many more companies are interested. We should have some form of contest so each company makes the best possible thing!
 
I wonder where we'd be today if, back in the 90s, Woodbine were sold off for redevelopment and Greenwood (aka "Old Woodbine") were kept instead...
 
adma:

There probably isn't enough space for stables and other facilities at Greenwood...and besides, it would appear the Rexdale site isn't very compelling for anything but sprawl type developments.

AoD
 
Its funny Woodbine racetrack has been around since 1956. As far as I can remember they only introduced slots there a few years ago and now all of a sudden the slot machines are the be all and end all for the place? It doesn't make sense, Woodbine Racetrack is exactly what it name implies, a track for racing horses. If they want to diversify their brand from a horse racing venue to a full fledged casino then they should do so. There is still a lot of demand for horse racing in Ontario, I don't see how a casino in Toronto would threaten their business.
 
Its funny Woodbine racetrack has been around since 1956. As far as I can remember they only introduced slots there a few years ago and now all of a sudden the slot machines are the be all and end all for the place? It doesn't make sense, Woodbine Racetrack is exactly what it name implies, a track for racing horses. If they want to diversify their brand from a horse racing venue to a full fledged casino then they should do so. There is still a lot of demand for horse racing in Ontario, I don't see how a casino in Toronto would threaten their business.

Slots at Woodbine (and other tracks) were introduced because the horse racing industry in Canada was suffering. Lower attendances and the resultant lower wagering had created an awful negative spiral which produced lower purses for the races which produced lower quality horses/races which lead to lower attendances and lower wagering and...well you get it.

Slots brought people back and the some of the slot revenue was funneled into purses which re-established Woodbine as one of the better tracks in North America.
 

Back
Top