M II A II R II K
Senior Member
Those rail corridors would be electrified and integrated into the overall system eventually no matter what plan is put forth. And would provide badly needed express services to accommodate long distance travel.
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- Thread starter AlvinofDiaspar
- Start date
scarberiankhatru
Senior Member
No, it's not my number one objection, it's just what I listed first. I didn't need to list any and I could have listed more. Other than the fact that I was looking at Yonge out a window when I posted that, my eye goes to Yonge Street when I see a map of Toronto, just like your finger goes towards 'reply with quote' whenever your eye spies a certain yellow hexagon.
To even mention going only to Steeles as an option and costing it out will only do harm and no good. That's a real danger involved with releasing half-baked plans as a starting point for provincial/federal negotiations...it's on the Internet now and people will be phoning in to radio and TV shows and posting comments and writing in to papers and emailing politicians and showing up to public meetings with possibly inaccurate information. All it takes is one politician in the right post who doesn't have a strong grasp of transit/urban issues to say "Oh, I agree, we should do X" and suddenly it's as good as set in stone.
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ssiguy2
Senior Member
Looks like a good plan although we have to remember that nobody presents new plans as well or as often as Toronto.
It certainly covers the whole city, acknowledges that there really is a "need for speed", and it is the first proposal to come out of the TTC that actually employs some of it's already existing transportation infrastructure ie the express subway routes.
There are of course potential problems suchas, will Toronto continue to tunnel in the suburbs like from Kennedy to STC? Will they bring in very strict spending controls so you don't end up with Taj Majal stations like on the Spadina ext. Will they actually start work immediately as support for the plan will plunge if the taxes go up and nothing new is being built as Eg/Shep/Fin were being built before these new taxes so they will want to see real and quick results from the new money they are ponying up?
Of course there is the little problem about money which seems to be glossed over. Queen's Park is already forking over $8 billion and has absolutely no money left. Ontario is already on the verge of a credit downgrade and has no more money to spare and certainly won't for the rest of the decade. Ottawa may help a little but banking on them for one third is lunacy especially if their friend Ford goes out of his way to tell Harper NOT to fork over any money.
Stinz is a politician thru and thru but this plan does 2 important things............Toronto finally uses some of it's existing infrastructure and someone finally has the balls to tell Torontonians what the rest of the world already knew..........if you want something you have to pay for it.
It certainly covers the whole city, acknowledges that there really is a "need for speed", and it is the first proposal to come out of the TTC that actually employs some of it's already existing transportation infrastructure ie the express subway routes.
There are of course potential problems suchas, will Toronto continue to tunnel in the suburbs like from Kennedy to STC? Will they bring in very strict spending controls so you don't end up with Taj Majal stations like on the Spadina ext. Will they actually start work immediately as support for the plan will plunge if the taxes go up and nothing new is being built as Eg/Shep/Fin were being built before these new taxes so they will want to see real and quick results from the new money they are ponying up?
Of course there is the little problem about money which seems to be glossed over. Queen's Park is already forking over $8 billion and has absolutely no money left. Ontario is already on the verge of a credit downgrade and has no more money to spare and certainly won't for the rest of the decade. Ottawa may help a little but banking on them for one third is lunacy especially if their friend Ford goes out of his way to tell Harper NOT to fork over any money.
Stinz is a politician thru and thru but this plan does 2 important things............Toronto finally uses some of it's existing infrastructure and someone finally has the balls to tell Torontonians what the rest of the world already knew..........if you want something you have to pay for it.
rbt
Senior Member
It could work extremely well if the doors were staggered on the cars themselves rather than directly across from one another.
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Lots of issues with this type of layout though. A person going to the wrong door at a single platform station when the train was crowded wouldn't make their stop.
lovarkitec
New Member
Beautifully said! this is political strategy at its best folks!! Stintz may be our next mayor - or at the very least, a serious contender!
doady
Senior Member
That should be GO's initiative, not TTC's. TTC should focus on local service.
I think this is a really bad plan. Only a few of Transit City's problems have been fixed, and some have been magnified. The plan is just really bloated and redundant.
Rainforest
Senior Member
There is no way for a plan based on Toronto's property tax to include funding for subway stations located outside 416.
Once the Finch to Steeles extension is funded, York Region will probably find funding for the extension to Hwy 7. Previously, York Region was pushing Toronto for the Yonge extension; now the roles are reversed. There is nothing wrong with that.
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sakrio
New Member
very ambitious was my initial reaction
nice plan (yay for sheppard west subway!)
hope it gets approved so things can actually move forward in this city
nice plan (yay for sheppard west subway!)
hope it gets approved so things can actually move forward in this city
BurlOak
Senior Member
I do not know if $4.50 is the correct amount, but it seems reasonable to expect the people who will benefit the most to pay something.
Say 1M riders per day x 365 days x $0.25 = $90M.
I imagine that a gas tax or vehicle registration tax is better on a Regional level and maybe would be used for the Province to come up with their share.
Electrify
Senior Member
Going to start working on a map, trying to mould the current plan into something more workable and realistic. Stay tuned...
BurlOak
Senior Member
I think there should be some type of sympossium or what have you to explore ways of making subway construction less expensive in Toronto. I think TTC has shown that they can design or build subways for $400 to $500M per km. Before you go to the people asking for money, the TTC needs to demonstrate that they are making efficient use of the funds.
This could include shallow cut-and-cover, elevated, P3, simpler stations, etc., etc. I would like to know what compromises would have to be made to save money, and how much could be saved. When TTC can prove that the plan is the best bang for the buck, it would be a lot more sell-able.
Patrick Smyth
New Member
Here we go again. What right does the Stintz Gang have to foist all this Transit crap on us one more time? When i think about Regent/Alexandra/Park, Lawrence Hts and Jane/Finch, or Towers-in-the-Park, Urban Sprawl, I see mistakes of planning. At a time when we are experiencing hyper-intensification, loss of open space and traffic chaos, why is the TO Planning Dept so decimated in funding, staffing and independence? I wish this Council would grow up and get some real problems solved and stop all this politicking and jockeying for position.
Patrick Smyth
New Member
Couldn't agree with you more! For a start, I can't see the reason for having a TTC anyway. Why not let the management group run the business and keep the petty politicians out of it altogether? Same with the Planning Dept. There should not be significant planning decisions made by councillors. Who thinks that's good planning? Who believes Karen Stintz is a transit expert? we have to man-up and stop the nonsense on Council. Remember, we're footing the bill for all this and now we're going to pay for another "Study".
nfitz
Superstar
The next Ontario election isn't due until 2015 ... no reason to think Ford would be around by then, even if Hudak is.
And no reason to think there'd be an election before then, with the strongest minority government in history. Could be a majority government soon, if the Liberals take Kitchener-Waterloo in the upcoming by-election.
Very interesting article on the 'back room' (although that may have a dirty connotation, I think in this case it was appropriate) talk that lead to this plan: http://www.thestar.com/news/cityhal...her-allies-made-the-onecity-transit-plan?bn=1
I especially like how the plan started with "how do we fund it?". Too often that question gets asked at the end, and then ultimately the plan goes nowhere.
I especially like how the plan started with "how do we fund it?". Too often that question gets asked at the end, and then ultimately the plan goes nowhere.