[datamouse]

No extension to Sherway Gardens to meet up with the Queensway LRT? I'd hope Milczyn would support OneCity if those 2 were on the map.

To quote Steve Munro: "Notable by its absence is the Bloor extension to Sherway Gardens. This shows that routes got onto the map because they had a sponsoring Councillor, and the ward’s representative, Peter Milczyn, is a Ford loyalist and the only TTC Commissioner who opposes OneCity. No biscuit for naughty Peter."

 

[doady]

I have a hard time imagining you take the university subway line. At the moment I live at eglinton west and its very difficult to get on during rush hour because its already packed. Ill assume with the extension will naturally come more riders which will make a already bad situation worse. On top of that now the university line will eventually see riders transfering from the Eglinton LRT which again I am sure will see an increase in ridership as people will naturally transfer here versus waiting to bloor. Eventually the University line will need relief the same as Yonge does today. As much as Id like to see the DRL go further north (ideally sheppard) and past Eglinton I cant endorse that at the cost of relief on the west hand side.

So Yonge need relief immediately, while University-Spadina will need relief eventually. Therefore DRL east of Yonge is bigger priority. Nothing you said refutes my point. But thank you for pointing out my obvious lack of knowledge and experience of University-Spadina subway line. Living in Mississauga, I always prefer to take the Yonge line instead because I like my trip downtown to be as long as possible.

Looking at the DRL (or Don Mills Express or Downtown Core Line) only as a Yonge reliever is pretty shortsighted. The line going west of downtown could also relieve Union Station depending on how it's designed, and would certainly relieve the overcrowded streetcar lines in the King/Queen West area. That's one of the densest and fastest-growing parts of the GTA and a subway line on Queen or King would serve it perfectly.

Shortsighted? I wasn't speaking of long-term, I was speaking of shorter-term. DRL is north of Eglinton is a bigger priority than west of Yonge. I never said DRL is "only a Yonge reliever." I never said DRL should never go west of Yonge. I just said the north of Eglinton section should be built first. The primary purpose of DRL is to relieve Yonge, especially Bloor-Yonge station. If you don't agree with this, more power to you.

 

[sixrings]

So Yonge need relief immediately, while University-Spadina will need relief eventually. Therefore DRL east of Yonge is bigger priority. Nothing you said refutes my point. But thank you for pointing out my obvious lack of knowledge and experience of University-Spadina subway line. Living in Mississauga, I always prefer to take the Yonge line instead because I like my trip downtown to be as long as possible.

I assume you are being sarcastic saying you take the yonge line and intact you do use the University line. The optimal drl would start in the east at sheppard and end at eglinton in the west.

 

[Hipster Duck]

Shortsighted? I wasn't speaking of long-term, I was speaking of shorter-term. DRL is north of Eglinton is a bigger priority than west of Yonge.

There is no "short term" with a $30b city wide plan. Assuming that they go through with this plan, if it's not on this map we won't be alive to see it open.

 

[Juan_Lennon416]

Stintz's ward set for transit tax slug 22

http://www.torontosun.com/2012/06/28/stintzs-ward-set-for-transit-tax-slug


BY DON PEAT, CITY HALL BUREAU CHIEF



TORONTO - Some wards will be on track for higher taxes than others if the OneCity transit plan and the property tax hike to fund it gets the green light.

Homes in TTC chair Karen Stintz’s ward will be some of the hardest hit if the new transit tax goes ahead while homes in fellow OneCity champion Councillor Glenn De Baeremaeker’s ward would see one of the lowest tax increases, according to a preliminary analysis of the impact of the new tax done by city staff.

Stintz and De Baeremaeker made headlines this week when they rolled out OneCity - an ambitious plan to build almost $30 billion worth of transit lines that included 72 km of subway lines, 73.5 km of LRT lines and 25.7 km of bus and streetcar lines. But OneCity has been hammered by Mayor Rob Ford and his allies for also suggesting a new revenue tool - a new property tax on every home and business drawn from the “uplift†or increase in property values from market value assessment. Stintz argues the uplift tax would cost the average home around $180 a year once it is phased in but raise $272 million a year for the city to build transit.

The Sun obtained an exclusive ward-by-ward breakdown, prepared by city staff, of the projected impact of the new tax on homes if the city started collecting it.

The average impact across the city for most homes would be $45 in the first year, $90 in the second year, $135 in the third year and $180 in the fourth year and every year after it is phased in. But based on the numbers city staff have already crunched, some councillors’ wards would see larger increases for the majority of homes.

Councillor Jaye Robinson’s ward would see the largest impact with most homes facing a $111 hike in the first year of the transit tax above and beyond any regular property tax increase.

The Ward 25, Don Valley West councillor called the uplift tax Stintz is proposing “the one you want to avoid if you can.â€

“I would like to see we exhaust every other potential revenue tool … before we go to this one which to me is kind of the end of the road,†Robinson told the Sun Thursday.

Robinson said she’d prefer to see a regional approach to transit funding that includes all partners rather than a small group of councillors.

“This (OneCity plan) is an interesting plan but I’m not sure it has been well thought out,†she said.

Stintz’s residents in Ward 16, Eglinton-Lawrence would see the second highest increase. Most homes in Stintz’s ward would see a $92 increase in the first year and it would climb to an annual increase of $368 once it was fully phased in.

“I think we need to study the proposal and the impact on each ward and the business community,†Stintz said Thursday.

“If people find value in the proposal, they will be willing to pay into a dedicated fund for transit. If through the study process, the equivalent of a 1.9% increase is too much for residents across the city to pay, then we can make adjustments.â€

While residents in every ward would see their property taxes rise to pay the transit tax, the increase would be lower in some wards.

Most homes in De Baeremaeker’s Scarborough ward would see a $28 increase in the first year.

Earlier this week, De Baeremaeker admitted raising taxes was the “unpopular†thing to do.

“We’re taking the unpopular step of saying to our next-door neighbours: ‘We believe we’re going to have to phase in a tax over for years ... and we’re going to use that to pay for transit,’†he said.

 

[Electrify]

http://www.torontosun.com/2012/06/28/stintzs-ward-set-for-transit-tax-slug


BY DON PEAT, CITY HALL BUREAU CHIEF



TORONTO - Some wards will be on track for higher taxes than others if the OneCity transit plan and the property tax hike to fund it gets the green light.

Homes in TTC chair Karen Stintz’s ward will be some of the hardest hit if the new transit tax goes ahead while homes in fellow OneCity champion Councillor Glenn De Baeremaeker’s ward would see one of the lowest tax increases, according to a preliminary analysis of the impact of the new tax done by city staff.

Stintz and De Baeremaeker made headlines this week when they rolled out OneCity - an ambitious plan to build almost $30 billion worth of transit lines that included 72 km of subway lines, 73.5 km of LRT lines and 25.7 km of bus and streetcar lines. But OneCity has been hammered by Mayor Rob Ford and his allies for also suggesting a new revenue tool - a new property tax on every home and business drawn from the “uplift” or increase in property values from market value assessment. Stintz argues the uplift tax would cost the average home around $180 a year once it is phased in but raise $272 million a year for the city to build transit.

The Sun obtained an exclusive ward-by-ward breakdown, prepared by city staff, of the projected impact of the new tax on homes if the city started collecting it.

The average impact across the city for most homes would be $45 in the first year, $90 in the second year, $135 in the third year and $180 in the fourth year and every year after it is phased in. But based on the numbers city staff have already crunched, some councillors’ wards would see larger increases for the majority of homes.

Councillor Jaye Robinson’s ward would see the largest impact with most homes facing a $111 hike in the first year of the transit tax above and beyond any regular property tax increase.

The Ward 25, Don Valley West councillor called the uplift tax Stintz is proposing “the one you want to avoid if you can.”

“I would like to see we exhaust every other potential revenue tool … before we go to this one which to me is kind of the end of the road,” Robinson told the Sun Thursday.

Robinson said she’d prefer to see a regional approach to transit funding that includes all partners rather than a small group of councillors.

“This (OneCity plan) is an interesting plan but I’m not sure it has been well thought out,” she said.

Stintz’s residents in Ward 16, Eglinton-Lawrence would see the second highest increase. Most homes in Stintz’s ward would see a $92 increase in the first year and it would climb to an annual increase of $368 once it was fully phased in.

“I think we need to study the proposal and the impact on each ward and the business community,” Stintz said Thursday.

“If people find value in the proposal, they will be willing to pay into a dedicated fund for transit. If through the study process, the equivalent of a 1.9% increase is too much for residents across the city to pay, then we can make adjustments.”

While residents in every ward would see their property taxes rise to pay the transit tax, the increase would be lower in some wards.

Most homes in De Baeremaeker’s Scarborough ward would see a $28 increase in the first year.

Earlier this week, De Baeremaeker admitted raising taxes was the “unpopular” thing to do.

“We’re taking the unpopular step of saying to our next-door neighbours: ‘We believe we’re going to have to phase in a tax over four years ... and we’re going to use that to pay for transit,’” he said.

 

[gweed123]

Good article. Stopped short of suggesting that these lines should be run by GO though.

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/article/1219015--could-go-be-the-answer-to-expanding-toronto-transit

 

[ssiguy2]

Couple more thoughts....

First it is essential that the new subway line to Humber/Pearson be a TTC line and NOT a GO rail line. The reality is that Toronto already has lots of GO rail lines but Torontonians themselves never use them. They are just too damn expensive for the relatively small amount of distance they have to travel vs 905ers. If it goes to Pearson it can always charge an extra fare for any Pearson station stops. This is very very common with airport transit lines........regular fare for the route erxcept those going all the way to the aiport where a small extra charge is levied ie $2. Enough to get extra funds but not enough to deter regular riders and especially airport employees from using the line. Of course this begs the question........is the diesel Pearson rail section now being built going to stall, will they electrify it immediately or build it as third rail? Seeing the new section has only just started construction adding the electrical lines with it would be both easy and relatively cheap.

Second..........is Toronto going to continue to be the only city on the planet that still tunnels it's way to Walmart. I am thinking specifically about the Kennedy/STC/Sheppard line. The new express subway will run along existing rail ROW so that's not a problem and a Queen line would have to be underground as will any extension of Yonge to Steels but this is a different matter. There is no reason why any of it should be underground except the small segment under the 401 to get to Sheppard. They could build it for half the price and twice as fast. Sheppard..........maybe still tunnel to Bathurst but elevated after that and they should use cut n cover for an suburban area where tunnel is the only option.

Third.........this must not be done on Toronto time. If people see Eg/Fin/Shep being constructed and finished by 202, the citizens will be furious and the deal off. Those lines are getting built without these new taxes. It is essential that new lines funded by the new tax begin construction the first year the tax goes into effect. People will, rightly so, not tolerate higher taxes only on the premise that "someday" we will build something with them.

Vancouver has it's faults but when it comes to transit when they say they are going to build something they get on with it. The 18km Millenium line enviornmental review took just 3 months for the whole line. It was going along current rail corridors and roadways so they knew that any large enviornmental review was just a maers and had very strict timetableske-work project. They put out the tenders very quickly, had all sections of the line being built at once using different contractors and voila.........an entire totally grade separated/elevated 18km Metro line completed from day of announcement to opening day in just 22 months. Toronto would still be trying to sort the paperwork. What's more the line came in on-time and on-budget.

Torontonians may be use to having all construction projects in Toronto moving at glacial speed but they won't tolerate it if they are being taxed for anything that doesn't start construction the same day the taxes begin.

 

[datamouse]

The rail corridor idea makes nice lines on the map but the concept is so vague at this point. The Scarborough rail line has a cost of $265mil per km while the Etobicoke one has a cost of $68mil/km.

 

[gweed123]

The rail corridor idea makes nice lines on the map but the concept is so vague at this point. The Scarborough rail line has a cost of $265mil per km while the Etobicoke one has a cost of $68mil/km.

One needs to be double tracked along nearly the entire length, as well as numerous grade separations, plus electrification. The other one only requires electrification. There's the cost differential.

 

[datamouse]

Ah thanks that reminded me to check a map to looks at needed grade separations. I was thinking of the major roads (Finch, Steeles, etc) but somehow underestimated the number of minor roads that would need it.

 

[innsertnamehere]

There are quite a few small residential streets on the scarborough express that would either need a grade separation, or just have the street cut off.

 

[jje1000]

Correct and incorrect. The people who work there are probably decent people. Their reader base is the problem.

 

[innsertnamehere]

I just love how the sun supported subways so fiercely just 3 months ago, but are now so fiercely against it.. Damn Hypocrites. Especially since these subways (with the exception of sheppard west) makes more sense than the ones they supported.

 

[Rainforest]

Scarb will also have two BRTs, supposedly.

And last I checked, the Air Rail Link will be at least $25 per person, per direction. I really, really doubt this can be converted into actual public transit. Contracts have been signed, people have to make an ROI.

Contracts are signed to build it, not to build-and-operate. The private partners are out once the line is built and they are paid for their service. At that point, it is up to a public entity (Metrolinx or TTC on its behalf) to set the price.

If they hope to operate it as "Etobicoke Express" rather than just a business shuttle to the airport, they really should charge a regular TTC or GO price. Otherwise, adding more stations is totally useless.

Yes, Old Toronto will always have more coverage. But even our ROW streetcars are still very slow and local service. We are an alpha city. But unlike every other alpha city, we have very little rapid transit coverage in our core. The DRL needs to be fast tracked, not Sheppard West. Sheppard West is a $1.5B boondoggle that provides little purpose other than getting deadhead trains to Yonge.

I agree that DRL should be much higher priority than Sheppard West; and I assume that DRL cannot just end at Yonge, it must continue further west to serve at least the western downtown.

That said, Sheppard West is not exactly a "boondoggle"; with both the Spadina and the Yonge lines extended further north, there will be quite a few trips using that bridge between the two lines.