datamouse
Active Member
Sheppard West also has to huge benefit of allowing trains to enter and leave service to and from the Wilson yard much smoother.
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- Thread starter AlvinofDiaspar
- Start date
8 major, 3 minor if you're doing it from the Lakeshore line to Highway 7 (not including Sheppard which is being done now). Also, we need to make sure that the locations that are grade-separated are wide enough to accommodate at least double tracks.
The Georgetown corridor has seen a lot of investment in terms of upgrading infrastructure recently (grade separations at the Junction and Strachan just to name a couple). Because a lot of the prep work has already been done, electrifying that corridor should be a cake walk compared to everything that needs to happen on the Stouffville line.
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Rainforest
Senior Member
I disagree. That corridor looks like a good place for LRT: high demand, but not quite a subway scale; several trip generators including UTSC and the mall at Lawrence east; good integration with the rapid network (subway / GO at Kennedy, and two Lakeshore East GO stations).
To the Ex, for sure. Up Dufferin, makes sense but not a top priority.
Sounds like a good idea.
I would continue FWLRT at least to Yonge, and keep it in the Finch West proper. First of all, it is likely that there will be more trips from Etobicoke to Yonge than across Yonge; so, a transfer at Keele is undesirable. Second, the section of Finch between Dufferin and Bathurst is rich in trip generators (hospital, school, several highrises).
Finch east of Yonge is debatable (BRT or LRT). However, I am puzzled that your BRT seems to veer off Finch before it hits the Finch / Warden cluster.
I would rather continue along Finch East (first hydro corridor, than street proper) all the way to McCowan, and then go down to the new Danforth subway terminus at Sheppard.
This is a good idea, at least for Jane. Perhaps, Don Mills as well, although I would not rule out a subway extension up Don Mills north of Eglinton, instead of LRT.
kEiThZ
Superstar
I may favour different views from time to time. But by and large I'm a centrist and I do my best never to peg down to one side of the spectrum. I look at the issues, the proposed solutions and vote on what I think is best.
It may be a good candidate for enhanced bus service (BRT Light), but I think anything more than that is overkill. Remember, UTSC is already served by the Ellesmere BRT running from STC, so it already has a pretty decent connection to the subway. One thing that was mentioned however is an SELRT spur to UTSC. Only thing is with so many spurs from the SELRT it may make the frequencies on each of those really low.
Oh for sure. I would venture to say that the DRL West from the Ex up to Bloor should be done in conjunction with the Southern Etobicoke LRTs (Lake Shore & Queensway). Those lines rely on a solid route to feed into, which is the DRL West.
I don't know why it didn't occur to me until now to be honest, haha. Splitting Queen up in that way makes a lot of sense now that I think about it.
This is the part of the plan that's really hard to predict. We don't know how dramatic of a shift in travel patterns the TYSSE is going to have on Finch. Are that many people really going to Yonge FOR Yonge? Or are they just going there because it's the closest subway?
I think we'll have a better idea of what needs to be done there after the FWLRT and TYSSE open. We'll be able to see how many people continue eastward along Finch on buses.
It actually veers at the Finch/Warden cluster. I know, it's hard to tell from the size of the map.
That makes a lot of sense, thanks. My goal was just to not have two disjointed lines (Finch and Ellesmere), that didn't really connect to each other. The debate would then be do you have the Finch BRT stop at Sheppard, or overlap with the subway for that block or two before becoming the Ellesmere BRT? I would imagine the frequencies on both would be relatively similar.
Eventually a subway extension up Don Mills, but not for decades. And even then, only up to Sheppard. I acknowledge the fact that it may happen, but we shouldn't sacrifice a decent solution now for a better solution that won't be viable for another 30 years.
Good comments though, I definitely appreciate them, and I'll be modifying my map tomorrow with some of your suggestions.
Rainforest
Senior Member
Too many spurs off SELRT is a problem, indeed. However, there was another option posted here by someone (not my idea, but I like it): combining SELRT and the Eglinton - Kingston Rd - Morningside line together, to form an arc-shaped LRT route through most of Scarborough. That would create more connection possibilities, and there would be no loss of frequency as there are no branches.
The Malvern LRT spur would, in that case, be served by a short route from the Sheppard / McCowan subway terminus. It would interline with the main Sheppard service for a 4-km stretch between McCowan and Neilson.
For Meadowvale and the zoo, LRT might not be needed at all, as buses operating from the Sheppard / McCowan subway terminus might actually do a better job. First of all, that would be better for people living on Sheppard east of Meadowvale; they would not have to transfer to LRT to reach the subway. Secondly, the demand to the zoo is highly seasonal. The bus service is easy to enhance when needed (run a frequent express branch on summer weekends and holidays), whereas LRT has to be maintained year-round regardless of the demand.
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GenerationW
Senior Member
No one should take the OneCity map as gospel. No doubt there would be many revisions.
As for the politics, I'm not convinced this plan as is can pass in Council. I expect a number of Councilors who are not Ford loyalists will struggle with the provision to increase property taxes.
As for the politics, I'm not convinced this plan as is can pass in Council. I expect a number of Councilors who are not Ford loyalists will struggle with the provision to increase property taxes.
AKS
Senior Member
MTR runs well by itself. They have a much larger ridership and their fares are distance based which brings in quite a bit of money, unlike TTC. TTC is pretty much a money loser. I think in Asia, they are able to build as much transit as they have because of the population density and the distance based fare charge. And I believe no union power. I don't think they've ever gone on strike or have constant wage increases.
MisterF
Senior Member
With completely integrated fares it wouldn't matter who operates which lines from the rider's point of view. That's the ultimate goal.
A lot of people here have been advocating the DRL going to Exhibition. Why is that? The only real reason for it to swing down to the Lakeshore line at all is to relieve Union Station. One proposal is to have a new station at Bathurst for that purpose. Other than that, it's better for the DRL to stay up at King/Queen Streets. Far more people and established, transit-starved neighbourhoods to serve there. The Lakeshore corridor already has, well, the Lakeshore line, which will be a major regional rail line under the Metrolinx plan. With integrated fares, that will become the local heavy rail line so putting a subway there would be pointless.
rbt
Senior Member
It is this exact proposal that requires a subway line. The idea is to terminate GO trains at Bathurst and put people (many won't walk) onto a subway line via an included transfer (read as fare integration).
The alternative is to run LakeShore underground at nearly the same cost and put a station underneath Union.
Either way, I don't expect the city to fund a Western segment any time soon. So if Metrolinx wants to do something to offload Union via the DRL, it will be up to them to fund it and if they're funding it they basically get to take the train wherever they want.
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Because the Ex is the next big development hot-spot west of downtown. It's largely city-owned land that is severely under-utilized. If the city plays its cards right, the funds raised from the sale of some of those lands (if they even do sell them, they can do some TCHC developments there if needed) can help fund the subway construction.
As far as "already being served by GO", I would argue that the stop spacing that GO will be using through this area will be too wide to effectively act as a local transit solution, and there wouldn't be much point in taking a feeder route for 2 minutes just to transfer and go a couple of stops via GO.
And this whole Ex thing is nothing new. This was pretty much the original alignment that the Spadina line was supposed to take in the 70s (out to the Ex and then right up Dufferin). It was only because of some last-minute council shenanigans that we ended up with the alignment that we have now.
And while the King-Queen area does need transit improvements, a DRL that bisects the King, Queen, Dundas, and College streetcars will do wonders for relieving the commuting pressure on these lines, allowing them to act as more local lines.
Also note in the plan that I posted here that it very much leaves the door open for a Queen LRT, which would have similar stop spacing to B-D, in order to provide a local, yet rapid service.
AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
gweed:
Only if there is an effective way to capture the riders on these routes that resides beyond the catchment of DRL stations - and that could translate to a) building a station when the DRL hit each route or b) reroute these lines to a station along the DRL. Either choice will present its' own set of issues.
AoD
Only if there is an effective way to capture the riders on these routes that resides beyond the catchment of DRL stations - and that could translate to a) building a station when the DRL hit each route or b) reroute these lines to a station along the DRL. Either choice will present its' own set of issues.
AoD
Ideally what I'd like to see are simplified St. Clair West style streetcar loops (although not actually a loop, just a portal to a linear underground streetcar station) at each of the DRL stations along Dufferin (Liberty, Parkdale, Brockton, Dufferin Mall). That way there could be a direct connection between the streetcar lines and the DRL.
The only one that may be a bit of a problem is Dufferin Mall Station, because it'll need to be a bit further north of College. All of the other stations can be more or less underneath the bisecting streetcar line.
AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
From the Globe:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...ont-back-onecity-transit-plan/article4380105/
No surprises there - they won't want to be seen as committing to the plan given the dollar figures. That said, I would be a bit surprised if they didn't jump at the SRT subway replacement - it will take a lot of heat off the Liberal MPPs back. It's good politics - and good planning.
AoD
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...ont-back-onecity-transit-plan/article4380105/
No surprises there - they won't want to be seen as committing to the plan given the dollar figures. That said, I would be a bit surprised if they didn't jump at the SRT subway replacement - it will take a lot of heat off the Liberal MPPs back. It's good politics - and good planning.
AoD
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M II A II R II K
Senior Member
Maybe it's best to have a main GTA transit system and dissolve the local transit systems and call it TransToronto or something.
Union Station doesn't have to be that stressed if there are additional hubs like a DRL having a Gerrard Square transfer from GO, and a Leslieville Station at Queen and Richmond Hill line intersection.
A Wellington Station as well as a Parkdale one, and a detour for the Richmond Hill station to Broadview so people can transfer to the BD line as well.
Union Station doesn't have to be that stressed if there are additional hubs like a DRL having a Gerrard Square transfer from GO, and a Leslieville Station at Queen and Richmond Hill line intersection.
A Wellington Station as well as a Parkdale one, and a detour for the Richmond Hill station to Broadview so people can transfer to the BD line as well.