[Tewder]

I live in the suburbs but would happily support funding of transit in Toronto and to Toronto, absolutely. I know lots of people who feel the same and who think it should be a no-brainer. I don't know why politicians assume that people in the suburbs enjoy commuting in their cars for 4 hours a day... Besides, Toronto is the economic engine or life-line, not to mention the cultural one, and it simply needs better transit.

 

[kEiThZ]

^ Fully agree. I have always thought it's a myth that suburbanites don't support transit or don't want urban neighbourhoods. However, the problem for politicians is that their voters want everything for free. The same people who pine for better transit will then complain when we spend billions on it and have to raise taxes. That's the issue.

I was hoping Metrolinx would solve all that. But unfortunately, the politicians don't want to give that organization any real teeth. I would've loved for Metrolinx to have been responsible not just transit but for all transportation coordination in the GTHA. Let a non-partisan decide if a certain highway expansion should be traded for a subway extension. Or let them determine how much and where tolls should be placed to reduce congestion. And I would've loved for Metrolinx to have been given more say in how transit is designed so that they could better facilitate inter-regional travel. Let them determine cross-regional priorities. Maybe this LRT should go first. Or maybe that subway project or that busway. Money here has the most impact so that's what we do. Etc. And I would have loved for Metrolinx to have gotten actual fund raising power. Forget that 1% sales tax. We aren't going to get a special tax rate for just one region in Ontario. I would have loved for Metrolinx to have been able to simply raise money the old-fashioned way: property taxes. The old fashioned way is very effective when you have a non-partisan body that's willing to make the tough decisions.

Alas, none of what I wanted came to pass with Metrolinx. They just became the province's rubber stamp. And they rubber stamped whatever the cities and regions put before. No real thought into how to develop transport infrastructure in the region cohesively. With how much they are hobbled, I am going to guess that at best they'll only be marginally successful at doing anything more than rubber stamping whatever the municipalities put before them and what the province feels like paying for.

 

[SimonP]

Conservative leader Tim Hudak has weighed in on these issues. Unfortunately he just seems to be repeating the old Harris mantras. Hudak calls for "stable funding" for Toronto, but does not say anything about the level of funding he would stabilize it at. Reading between the lines, under a Hudak government Toronto would be getting the same or even less funding. He said that Toronto will have to face "tough choices on spending priorities" and refused to say if he would fund any transit expansion.

 

[TOareaFan]

I live in the suburbs but would happily support funding of transit in Toronto and to Toronto, absolutely. I know lots of people who feel the same and who think it should be a no-brainer. I don't know why politicians assume that people in the suburbs enjoy commuting in their cars for 4 hours a day... Besides, Toronto is the economic engine or life-line, not to mention the cultural one, and it simply needs better transit.

I think I generally agree with that. I do think, though, that a lot of suburbanites might judge their support of tolls based on a couple of fears which would need a lot of PR to overcome:

1. Whenever I talk to fellow suburbanites I often get this "your lucky you work downtown" the entire transit system is aimed at Union. I work at X and there is no reasonable way for me to get there by transit. If people thought that was where the tolls were going (a continuation of that), I don't think there would be a lot of support for tolls

2. Most of our congestion is, frankly, getting into Toronto. Not getting around in Toronto. So, using my commute {averages about 65 minutes each way}........it takes me typically about 40 minutes to get past the airport and about 25 minutes getting from there to my office........if the tolls from suburabanites were being used to improve (mostly) ttc-type transit inside Toronto itself there would be a perceived lack of benefit to the suburbanites and, therefore, some opposition.

Of course, any opposition is on top of the typical knee-jerk "I already pay too much for everything" type reaction.

 

[js97]

Conservative leader Tim Hudak has weighed in on these issues. Unfortunately he just seems to be repeating the old Harris mantras. Hudak calls for "stable funding" for Toronto, but does not say anything about the level of funding he would stabilize it at. Reading between the lines, under a Hudak government Toronto would be getting the same or even less funding. He said that Toronto will have to face "tough choices on spending priorities" and refused to say if he would fund any transit expansion.

that dude is just playing politics....

Their best chance was John Tory, or at least a very red tory... too bad they had to appease the religious right...
McGuinty for another 4 years!

 

[valkoholic]

I think one of the by-products of any GTA-wide car-driving tax (i.e. road tolls, gas tax, parking space tax, etc.) would be a heavy bias towards suburb-friendly transit (GO Rail, Viva, etc.) in the near term. Road tolls would be a hard sell for any politician, but it would be even harder to use the tolls to pay for the downtown relief line.

 

[SimonP]

From today's Globe:

Tolls, taxes, fees for transit? John Tory aims to lessen the stigma

Mr. Tory intends to use his platform as chairman of the Toronto City Summit Alliance to ratchet down the public indignation that often greets five ideas for funding public transit: road tolls; a Greater Toronto sales tax; a parking tax; a gas-tax hike and a property-tax increase.

“The notion that it’s none of the above is not on,” Mr. Tory said. “This is a test of leadership because otherwise to say you’re going to build all this transit without saying how you’re going to pay for it is, to me, a meaningless promise.”

I'm pretty pleased with this. The McGuinty let-down, and 30 years of previous failure by provincial governments, has really demonstrated that if we are going to expand transit in the GTA we are going to have to pay for it ourselves.

 

[SimonP]

I think one of the by-products of any GTA-wide car-driving tax (i.e. road tolls, gas tax, parking space tax, etc.) would be a heavy bias towards suburb-friendly transit (GO Rail, Viva, etc.) in the near term. Road tolls would be a hard sell for any politician, but it would be even harder to use the tolls to pay for the downtown relief line.

I agree, in the short term a lot of money will go to expansion of Viva and GO. I don't mind that, as the effect of expanding those services will be dumping more and more people on the Yonge Subway, and in the midterm that is going to make the DRL essential.

 

[kEiThZ]

I think one of the by-products of any GTA-wide car-driving tax (i.e. road tolls, gas tax, parking space tax, etc.) would be a heavy bias towards suburb-friendly transit (GO Rail, Viva, etc.) in the near term. Road tolls would be a hard sell for any politician, but it would be even harder to use the tolls to pay for the downtown relief line.

Spot on. And I would add that if you start charging tolls then you better be prepared to see the transit demands of suburbanites who will largely be paying those tolls, go up. I highly doubt they'll settle for buses and streetcars and multiple transfers. They'll want subway extensions and frequent GO service if there are tolls.

I don't know if that's rules out the DRL since it's needed to make the commuter ride of suburbanites from the east easier. But there will undoubtedly be more demand for expansion in the burbs themselves since those residents will perceive that they are now making a more direct contribution to the running of the transit system, an altogether, not unfounded assumption, since downtown residents aren't as likely to incur congestion charges or road tolls (parking tax is a different story).

 

[kEiThZ]

From today's Globe:



I'm pretty pleased with this. The McGuinty let-down, and 30 years of previous failure by provincial governments, has really demonstrated that if we are going to expand transit in the GTA we are going to have to pay for it ourselves.

I have always thought that John Tory would have been both a solid mayor and premier. He's a decent and level headed man. Too bad he had to run against McGuinty (another fairly decent gent) and lead a party filled with ideologues. I think there's hope if we can get at least some leaders talking about transit and talking about tolls.

I wouldn't characterize the recent transit cuts as a McGuinty letdown. What's the alternative? Running a huge deficit that will help elect Hudak (who would then make worse cuts anyway)? Like it or not, transit is just not that big of a public issue. And viewed at province wide, it's even less so. But the deficit could well enrage the public. McGuinty made the right choice.

 

[gweed123]

I have always thought that John Tory would have been both a solid mayor and premier. He's a decent and level headed man. Too bad he had to run against McGuinty (another fairly decent gent) and lead a party filled with ideologues. I think there's hope if we can get at least some leaders talking about transit and talking about tolls.

I wouldn't characterize the recent transit cuts as a McGuinty letdown. What's the alternative? Running a huge deficit that will help elect Hudak (who would then make worse cuts anyway)? Like it or not, transit is just not that big of a public issue. And viewed at province wide, it's even less so. But the deficit could well enrage the public. McGuinty made the right choice.

If someone who is fairly right-wing like Tory can come out and say that we need to find ways of funding transit, that says a lot. First of all, it says that we've gotten beyond the question of "do we need transit?", which all of us here are glad to see. The second thing it says is that the right is not just paying lipservice to transit the same way they do to social services, etc, they're actually looking for ways to fund it. Granted, Tory seems a bit left for the PC party, and Hudak has been rather silent about his stance on transit and its funding, so maybe we aren't out of the woods just yet.

But in any case, it's good to see that transit is becoming less of a left vs right issue, and more just an assumed need, like universal healthcare. No one in their right mind would dare go backwards on universal healthcare in this country. Hopefully transit funding will one day reach that same "touch my funding and I'll start a riot" state.

 

[rbt]

If someone who is fairly right-wing like Tory can come out and say that we need to find ways of funding transit, that says a lot.

Tory worked directly with Bill Davis as Principal Secretary for half a decade. Public Tranist investment in Toronto was pretty significant between '71 and '85 when Davis was premiere. I don't think you will see Tory complaining about the SRT at any time either for similar reasons.


I'm not at all surprised he has a similar interest in public transit in Toronto that Davis did. It makes good long term economic sense to make that investment as mobility constrains the cities growth, something not true in most places.

 

[GraphicMatt]

It's genuinely too bad that Bill Davis-style progressive conservatism is dead and buried in this country.

 

[grey]

If someone who is fairly right-wing like Tory

Wikipedia: Red Tory.

 

[kEiThZ]

It's genuinely too bad that Bill Davis-style progressive conservatism is dead and buried in this country.

I voted for Tory over McGuinty specifically because I wanted him to succeed and remake the PCs as a truly progressive conservative party. I actually liked McGuinty but I didn't want to see the tories descend into reactionary politics. Sadly, his loss, I think, has convinced the PCs that there's no victory to be had in moderation....and that Toronto is a dead zone for conservatives of any breed or inclination.

To me, the current situation is bad for Toronto. We are just going to keep lurching from a government (Liberals) that gives us lukewarm support and the Harrisites who see Toronto as a whipping boy that'll help them get votes elsewhere.