lenaitch
Senior Member
Seriously?
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- Thread starter W. K. Lis
- Start date
Seriously?
Admiral Beez
Superstar
I‘ve always more identified with the English flag. British is a passport, but English is an ethnicity, like Han Chinese, Iroquois, Armenian or Zulu. The English are my historic people, but Canada is my nation and home.
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SunriseChampion
Senior Member
...yes, and your nation and home's entire politico-social structure is based on the British tradition, for better or worse (for better, in my opinion).
I'm a son of refugees. Real ones. With only a backpack and a dream. Ripped off and scammed at every opportunity by scoundrels of all colours. To make things "worse", I was born on the Loyalist shores and take it all quite seriously. I identify with the Union Jack because I very much appreciate the legacy left for the rest of us. There are hiccups such as the drugs laws, but I can look past that at the bigger picture...and appreciate most of it.
And I say this as someone who is actively involved in the subversion of our country's drugs laws. Sure, change the flag. But don't expect me to eye the new one with any loyalty or love.
I'm a son of refugees. Real ones. With only a backpack and a dream. Ripped off and scammed at every opportunity by scoundrels of all colours. To make things "worse", I was born on the Loyalist shores and take it all quite seriously. I identify with the Union Jack because I very much appreciate the legacy left for the rest of us. There are hiccups such as the drugs laws, but I can look past that at the bigger picture...and appreciate most of it.
And I say this as someone who is actively involved in the subversion of our country's drugs laws. Sure, change the flag. But don't expect me to eye the new one with any loyalty or love.
CityStay
Active Member
The Ontario flag is crap, looks like 10 other forgotten colonial flags that nobody cares about, can't tell apart.
Just throw a stylized white Trillium on a solid background and be done with it.
And the Toronto flag is complete shite too but changing that would be a total nightmare so.. stick with shite.
Just throw a stylized white Trillium on a solid background and be done with it.
And the Toronto flag is complete shite too but changing that would be a total nightmare so.. stick with shite.
Lennox970
Active Member
@tripwire thanks for the compliment, "beavers with frickin' laser beams attached to their heads..." is memorable 
This discussion is both depressing and amusing. Depressing because it reminds me how shallow most Canadians are. Amusing, because it reminds me how shallow most Canadians are. We are the original infantile nation, forever bitching about England or the Americans. In many respects a perfectly balanced people, chips on both our shoulders.
And, we could go down the ‘so, apart from making us a high income, technologically advanced democracy, what did Britain ever do for us?’ discussion, but it has already been done much better by Monty Python. Also going down the 'colonialism was bad' discussion is fine, until we reach the point where we ask: as opposed to what?
As for a flag representing us, we have one, it’s the Maple Leaf flag. It represents all Canadians irrespective of religion, race or creed. It encapsulates who we are, and who we shall be. But, provincial flags tell the diverse story of where we came from and I think we should embrace them as symbols of all our heritage. The Union Jack as much a legitimate symbol of Canadian nationhood as the French imperial fleurs de lys or the inuksuk. Or indeed the maple leaf. They can be claimed by anyone, of any heritage.
I am no fan of cultural homogenisation. The ‘no name brand’ hollowing out of our history serves no one apart from those who have a chip on their shoulders (and maybe those with a radical political agenda, not naming 3-letter organisations). Is our commitment to diversity so shallow we need strip our national and provincial symbols of all meaning, in the name of a false sense of inclusion?
When I think of the Ontario flag, I picture it in my mind’s eye flying above the Rainbow Bridge crossing at Niagara Falls. It explains in simple, symbolic terms why we have a border and why we have a Canada.
This discussion is both depressing and amusing. Depressing because it reminds me how shallow most Canadians are. Amusing, because it reminds me how shallow most Canadians are. We are the original infantile nation, forever bitching about England or the Americans. In many respects a perfectly balanced people, chips on both our shoulders.
And, we could go down the ‘so, apart from making us a high income, technologically advanced democracy, what did Britain ever do for us?’ discussion, but it has already been done much better by Monty Python. Also going down the 'colonialism was bad' discussion is fine, until we reach the point where we ask: as opposed to what?
As for a flag representing us, we have one, it’s the Maple Leaf flag. It represents all Canadians irrespective of religion, race or creed. It encapsulates who we are, and who we shall be. But, provincial flags tell the diverse story of where we came from and I think we should embrace them as symbols of all our heritage. The Union Jack as much a legitimate symbol of Canadian nationhood as the French imperial fleurs de lys or the inuksuk. Or indeed the maple leaf. They can be claimed by anyone, of any heritage.
I am no fan of cultural homogenisation. The ‘no name brand’ hollowing out of our history serves no one apart from those who have a chip on their shoulders (and maybe those with a radical political agenda, not naming 3-letter organisations). Is our commitment to diversity so shallow we need strip our national and provincial symbols of all meaning, in the name of a false sense of inclusion?
When I think of the Ontario flag, I picture it in my mind’s eye flying above the Rainbow Bridge crossing at Niagara Falls. It explains in simple, symbolic terms why we have a border and why we have a Canada.
SunriseChampion
Senior Member
A stylised trillium: speaking of flippin lame.
lenaitch
Senior Member
In these "unprecedented times" (a phrase I have come to loathe), kvetching about our flag is probably the last thing we should be expecting our government to be worrying about. Having said that, I can only imagine what proposals a government committee would come up with as a replacement. They would have to speak to every group and sensibility, because if it doesn't speak to me then it offends me, apparently. It reminds me of a casual conversation I had with an MP at a social event when the conversation went to 24 Sussex. I felt that it should be torn down and rebuilt, but feared what the design would look like after the government got it hands on it. He laughed but said I was probably not wrong.
karledice
Active Member
Exactly!
This cancel culture is going too far. Who cares right now. I'm not gonna waste my tax dollars on changing the flag, publications, millions already in circulation, in prints etc. WASTE or TAX DOLLARS while people struggle without jobs or money and businesses has to close off.
W. K. Lis
Superstar
Designing a new flag would mean jobs for the designers. Flags last for a year before the sun bleaches it and the wind rips it. Just replace the flag inventory with new ones as the old inventory gets used up.
picard102
Senior Member
It would create temporary work for designers, and rolling out a new brand at this scale doesn't work by replacing inventory. It would need to be done all at once or it will take years to implement.
karledice
Active Member
How many designers are employed to redesign a flag?
What about millions of textbooks, publications, forms and associated systems that have a flag physically or digitally?
All data points across the country referring to the flag? Who's gonna pay to replace all of those geography textbooks kids have?
All the library and official government print publications across all levels provincial, federal, municipal that refers to the Ontario flag?
The etchings on buildings, statues, monuments, official documents to be reprinted and IT systems and portals to be updated on many provincial websites
A complete and useless waste of multi millions tax money while could be used to support homelessness, vulnerable population or small businesses through COVID times.
AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
It's not a priority now (as it shouldn't be) doesn't mean it shouldn't be considered going forward. I don't buy the argument that redesigning now for economic benefit - but it is an exercise that should be considered in the future - and it has nothing to do with cancel culture. I mean, our current Canadian flag was literally an exercise of "doing better" - and it turned out great, iconic even.
AoD
W. K. Lis
Superstar
Books, monuments, etc. from before February 15, 1965 are fine without the Canadian Maple Leaf flag. Shows the history.
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Lennox970
Active Member
AoD
[/QUOTE]
Or we end up with the Ontarian equivalent of Newfoundland and Labrador's flag...
I genuinely still don't get the need. Apart from some leftover 1960's era anti-UK feeling.
[/QUOTE]
Or we end up with the Ontarian equivalent of Newfoundland and Labrador's flag...
I genuinely still don't get the need. Apart from some leftover 1960's era anti-UK feeling.
karledice
Active Member
What about the rest of what needs to be replaced as I provided some examples (not even remotely complete of what's to be replaced)?
It's a VERY EXPENSIVE rebranding exercise using tax dollars that is not a priority when our GDP just dropped and unemployment on the rise with COVID nowhere near final.