[TransitBart]

And what exactly is your point?

There are a lot of places where the ridership levels will never improve beyond what can be carried on a bus at, say, 5 minute headways - if we're lucky. For those passengers, it will always and forever be nothing more than a bus.

Do you begrudge them so much that they should have to walk that distance rather than have a bus?

Don't get me wrong, I hate buses more than most. (Just ask my friends.) But there comes a point at which there just can't be any better. And unfortunately, that covers a very lot of Scarborough, North York and Etobicoke (and even some of the inner suburbs). And so, guess what: the bus will have to continue to be a very important part of the Toronto transit landscape. It happens to be the easiest, and most convenient way to for those people to access transit.

And I guess, at the end of the day, this is what bothers me about transit "snobs" who feel that "subways are the only answer" or "if it isn't rail, it's not rapid transit". Yeah, I'd love to see rail-based transit everywhere. But the realist in me understands that it's simply not feasible everywhere, and so you need to run buses to those places to get people onboard. And that's kind of the point - it is a network, after all. The more you can draw people from whatever their point A is to their point B, the better. And running more buses more frequently is part of that.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

My point - more clearly - is that buses suck as anything more than that last mile solution. I am not a rails only snob.

And as a oh-so-proud Canadian and Torontonian I am disappointed that so much transit in this city is bus based. It's fine - and there is no other way - if a bus goes a long distance in North Bay or Belleville; there is not so much competition for space on the roads. In Toronto, I think this is a failure.

But here we are in a large - and by most measures - successful city - successful enough to be on the Amazon HQ2 list. And we have no other way to get from Malvern to your new college career at Humber Lakeshore than by a trip bookended by long slow bus rides if you are a transit rider.

I am disappointed. I am upset. I am a resident irritated at how long it takes to get certain places at certain times. And how inconvenient it can be.

At the end - I think I am angry. Angry with the Davises, the Petersons, the Raes, the Harrises and the McGuintys. And also with every parochial council in the amalgamated city. That was a governance failure as it allowed 45 councilors to behave as though speed bumps (local) were more important than transit (regional). Because in their eyes they were. The absence of a metro level government allowed and encouraged this behavior.

In this successful place - now there is no money. We have had twenty years of relatively good economic times. And we blew it. So we consign millions of people to terrible transit - nothing against the TTC - the pols are responsible.

And finally, where we are is two projects - shovels in ground - Eg and Finch - and more bureaucracy run amok with the planning of the relief line.

In more than a few words, is that the background to my sentiments on buses. The status quo is not OK. We have been through two election cycles in the province/city this year. And there is no political transit champ on the stage saying, "We see the problem. Here is the solution." In many, many cases, the buses - stuck in traffic are here for years to come.

 

[steveintoronto]

"Research suggests the Bombardier buses running along College and Dundas - replacements for the looooooong delayed new Bombardier streetcars - are deliberately designed to antagonize riders," joked one Twitter user this week.

"It's another francophone plot to stealthily undermine the morale of a majority anglo city."

https://www.blogto.com/city/2018/04/college-street-toronto-completely-different-without-streetcars/

Ironically, the buses were faster along the route, but the ride quality was abysmal. You don't get thrown side to side at every stop on a streetcar. And leg room and seat access is much better on streetcars, (well at least the C/ALRVs, the Flexities leave a lot to be desired).

Even though I avoid peak (one of the priceless pay-offs of being retired, I choose my own hours) even in peak, ride quality standing is still much better on streetcars vs buses.

That being said, I continue to be impressed with the Mi-Way Transitway. Those buses really move. And therein lies the probable answer for 'Toronto still being moved mostly by bus'. Bus/HOV lanes. More of them. Enforced.

 

[MisterF]

My point - more clearly - is that buses suck as anything more than that last mile solution. I am not a rails only snob.

And as a oh-so-proud Canadian and Torontonian I am disappointed that so much transit in this city is bus based. It's fine - and there is no other way - if a bus goes a long distance in North Bay or Belleville; there is not so much competition for space on the roads. In Toronto, I think this is a failure.

But here we are in a large - and by most measures - successful city - successful enough to be on the Amazon HQ2 list. And we have no other way to get from Malvern to your new college career at Humber Lakeshore than by a trip bookended by long slow bus rides if you are a transit rider.

I am disappointed. I am upset. I am a resident irritated at how long it takes to get certain places at certain times. And how inconvenient it can be.

At the end - I think I am angry. Angry with the Davises, the Petersons, the Raes, the Harrises and the McGuintys. And also with every parochial council in the amalgamated city. That was a governance failure as it allowed 45 councilors to behave as though speed bumps (local) were more important than transit (regional). Because in their eyes they were. The absence of a metro level government allowed and encouraged this behavior.

In this successful place - now there is no money. We have had twenty years of relatively good economic times. And we blew it. So we consign millions of people to terrible transit - nothing against the TTC - the pols are responsible.

And finally, where we are is two projects - shovels in ground - Eg and Finch - and more bureaucracy run amok with the planning of the relief line.

In more than a few words, is that the background to my sentiments on buses. The status quo is not OK. We have been through two election cycles in the province/city this year. And there is no political transit champ on the stage saying, "We see the problem. Here is the solution." In many, many cases, the buses - stuck in traffic are here for years to come.

I agree with your post, and we've been failing at keeping up with the needed investment for so long that it must be clear by now that it's not just a failure of who's in charge. It's a failure of the governance structure itself. Some sort of fundamental shakeup is badly needed.

But it's worth noting that it's not just the two projects you mention that are underway. RER is underway too and will have a bigger impact than both Eglinton and Finch, if for no other reason than the fact that it brings people downtown. Toronto's transit system is really bad at getting people downtown, despite it being where the growth and demand are concentrated. Only the relief line rivals RER in usefulness.

https://www.blogto.com/city/2018/04/college-street-toronto-completely-different-without-streetcars/

Ironically, the buses were faster along the route, but the ride quality was abysmal. You don't get thrown side to side at every stop on a streetcar. And leg room and seat access is much better on streetcars, (well at least the C/ALRVs, the Flexities leave a lot to be desired).

Even though I avoid peak (one of the priceless pay-offs of being retired, I choose my own hours) even in peak, ride quality standing is still much better on streetcars vs buses.

That being said, I continue to be impressed with the Mi-Way Transitway. Those buses really move. And therein lies the probable answer for 'Toronto still being moved mostly by bus'. Bus/HOV lanes. More of them. Enforced.

Does anyone know why specifically the replacement buses have been faster than the streetcars? Is it cars getting in the way? Or maybe dwell times caused by the volume of riders lining up at the front door and paying the driver? Buses don't accelerate any faster than streetcars, so it has to be something else.

 

[Midtown Urbanist]

My point - more clearly - is that buses suck as anything more than that last mile solution. I am not a rails only snob.

And as a oh-so-proud Canadian and Torontonian I am disappointed that so much transit in this city is bus based. It's fine - and there is no other way - if a bus goes a long distance in North Bay or Belleville; there is not so much competition for space on the roads. In Toronto, I think this is a failure.

But here we are in a large - and by most measures - successful city - successful enough to be on the Amazon HQ2 list. And we have no other way to get from Malvern to your new college career at Humber Lakeshore than by a trip bookended by long slow bus rides if you are a transit rider.

I am disappointed. I am upset. I am a resident irritated at how long it takes to get certain places at certain times. And how inconvenient it can be.

At the end - I think I am angry. Angry with the Davises, the Petersons, the Raes, the Harrises and the McGuintys. And also with every parochial council in the amalgamated city. That was a governance failure as it allowed 45 councilors to behave as though speed bumps (local) were more important than transit (regional). Because in their eyes they were. The absence of a metro level government allowed and encouraged this behavior.

In this successful place - now there is no money. We have had twenty years of relatively good economic times. And we blew it. So we consign millions of people to terrible transit - nothing against the TTC - the pols are responsible.

And finally, where we are is two projects - shovels in ground - Eg and Finch - and more bureaucracy run amok with the planning of the relief line.

In more than a few words, is that the background to my sentiments on buses. The status quo is not OK. We have been through two election cycles in the province/city this year. And there is no political transit champ on the stage saying, "We see the problem. Here is the solution." In many, many cases, the buses - stuck in traffic are here for years to come.

It is a good, well-justified rant you have there. But I think it is misplaced if positioned as a tirade against the bus.

The bus is just a technology. It has its use and purpose.

Your last line "In many, many cases, the buses - stuck in traffic are here for years to come", that is kind of the point I was making earlier. The bus experience does not need to be that way. Buses could be fast and efficient mode of transportation if the route is designed to be fast and efficient. For the most part, we fail to do this in Toronto (not even just with buses, but with our legacy streetcar network as well).

Where the ridership warrants it, I am more than fine with looking at potential rail-based rapid transit options. But as mentioned, not every transit corridor or bus route can justify that. I don't think just because the ridership of those routes fail to warrant rail-based transit, that the riders of those routes should be subjected to being perennially on a bus stuck in traffic.

 

[TransitBart]

It is a good, well-justified rant you have there. But I think it is misplaced if positioned as a tirade against the bus.

The bus is just a technology. It has its use and purpose.

Your last line "In many, many cases, the buses - stuck in traffic are here for years to come", that is kind of the point I was making earlier. The bus experience does not need to be that way. Buses could be fast and efficient mode of transportation if the route is designed to be fast and efficient. For the most part, we fail to do this in Toronto (not even just with buses, but with our legacy streetcar network as well).

Where the ridership warrants it, I am more than fine with looking at potential rail-based rapid transit options. But as mentioned, not every transit corridor or bus route can justify that. I don't think just because the ridership of those routes fail to warrant rail-based transit, that the riders of those routes should be subjected to perennially stuck in traffic buses.

The subject is complex. And time passes, it gets more complex.

One thing is immutable. Toronto was not designed by a city builder. It was muddy York and in some ways its inner city has never moved past that. Toronto is not Paris laid out in the nineteenth century by Napolean III and Haussmann and then re-built after the wars, nor Washington laid out according to a plan.The streets are narrow leading to a competition for space. Absolutely no BRT will fix Dufferin ever. Unless we make Dufferin a transit mall like King from the Lakeshore to Steeles.

BRT is lovely for Steeles, Sheppard and anywhere else where the road allowances permit adding bus lanes. Only serious underground heavy-rail transit will fix the old city's problems and make it easier for anyone who lives in 905 to get in and or out of the city to work or vice-versa.

On top of all this, that transit is not seen as a formidable way to mitigate climate change is beyond belief to me. I drive because transit is not helpful in where I want to go. In Mexico City and Paris lifetimes ago, I took transit. Because it worked. Forget taxing the hell out of carbon. Build the relief line and see how many of us can happily walk a few blocks - to the subway and then avoid a manic cross-town drive.

This touches so many obvious notes (to me anyway) that I am floored at the inflexibility and/or blindness of the pols.

Health - never have we been so fat - better transit - we could all walk to the station in the AM. Or part way. Even some days.
Climate Change/ Green House Gases - fewer emissions from fewer internal combustion engines.
Quality of Life - happiness - HDI ranking - productivity - this city is a key economic engine in the province and the land. Don't politicians read Richard Florida?

What more is there to get here? And who on earth needs convincing?

 

[steveintoronto]

Does anyone know why specifically the replacement buses have been faster than the streetcars?

Just running out the door while the Sun is still shining, but will link this later. Steve Munro did an excellent analysis of this. Buses actually have *advantages* in some performance aspects as a vehicle, but that isn't necessarily linear with *rider experience*. The acceleration, btw, on the C/ALRVs is not as good as some buses. Others will detail that.

I agree with your post, and we've been failing at keeping up with the needed investment for so long that it must be clear by now that it's not just a failure of who's in charge. It's a failure of the governance structure itself. Some sort of fundamental shakeup is badly needed.

It is a good, well-justified rant you have there. But I think it is misplaced if positioned as a tirade against the bus.

The bus is just a technology. It has its use and purpose.

The subject is complex. And time passes, it gets more complex.

I was just thinking about this, the political/societal aspect especially as to how we've gone from being a 'World Leader' to a laggard in...what, just a generation, two max?

This is the basis of discussion for a string of its own. I'm certainly in on it, anyone else? Excellent points. I'm riven with bouts of despair just thinking about this, but without discussion (and far more widely than this forum) this won't get better.

It goes as far as The Constitution now being a straitjacket to the change absolutely necessary to move things forward.

Edit to Add: "City State" (or Region State) *has to be accommodated by the Constitution*. And there's that feeling of despair again...

Question: Is this line of discussion covered in the "Superlinx" string, or complementary to it?

 

[Midtown Urbanist]

Quality of Life - happiness - HDI ranking - productivity - this city is a key economic engine in the province and the land. Don't politicians read Richard Florida?

Forget Richard Florida. Happy City by Charles Montgomery (another fellow Canadian) is a must-read on that index.

I'm not disagreeing with your points. To nitpick, I wouldn't look at enhances to the bus as a long-term solution to Dufferin, as I believe that Dufferin qualifies as a route whose ridership is deserving of rapid-transit.

I was just thinking about this, the political/societal aspect especially as to how we've gone from being a 'World Leader' to a laggard in...what, just a generation, two max?

Toronto was (and is still considered) to be a continental leader for servicing suburban areas with high frequency, high coverage, high ridership bus routes. US cities sent their transportation planners to study Toronto's suburban bus route network back in the day.

It just seems to me that we have failed to improve on our early successes, we have been managing the status quo when it comes to our bus system for more than a generation. It is true, we might have an overall good bus system presently (especially compared to majority of our North American counterparts), but as has been articulated, the service still sucks. It doesn't have to suck.

 

[asher__jo]

Just running out the door while the Sun is still shining, but will link this later. Steve Munro did an excellent analysis of this. Buses actually have *advantages* in some performance aspects as a vehicle, but that isn't necessarily linear with *rider experience*. The acceleration, btw, on the C/ALRVs is not as good as some buses. Others will detail that.

Just running out the door while the Sun is still shining, but will link this later. Steve Munro did an excellent analysis of this. Buses actually have *advantages* in some performance aspects as a vehicle, but that isn't necessarily linear with *rider experience*. The acceleration, btw, on the C/ALRVs is not as good as some buses. Others will detail that.




I was just thinking about this, the political/societal aspect especially as to how we've gone from being a 'World Leader' to a laggard in...what, just a generation, two max?

This is the basis of discussion for a string of its own. I'm certainly in on it, anyone else? Excellent points. I'm riven with bouts of despair just thinking about this, but without discussion (and far more widely than this forum) this won't get better.

It goes as far as The Constitution now being a straitjacket to the change absolutely necessary to move things forward.

Edit to Add: "City State" (or Region State) *has to be accommodated by the Constitution*. And there's that feeling of despair again...

Question: Is this line of discussion covered in the "Superlinx" string, or complementary to it?

I definitely agree that Toronto not having enough self-governance will continue to hold it back with making it's own decisions. Toronto is far too useful of a pawn to manipulate for Queens Park to ever cut it loose of their tentacles. Even under a relatively supportive Liberal government, they couldn't help meddling in city affairs with the Scarborough Subway saga.


I was just thinking about this, the political/societal aspect especially as to how we've gone from being a 'World Leader' to a laggard in...what, just a generation, two max?

This is the basis of discussion for a string of its own. I'm certainly in on it, anyone else? Excellent points. I'm riven with bouts of despair just thinking about this, but without discussion (and far more widely than this forum) this won't get better.

It goes as far as The Constitution now being a straitjacket to the change absolutely necessary to move things forward.

Edit to Add: "City State" (or Region State) *has to be accommodated by the Constitution*. And there's that feeling of despair again...

Question: Is this line of discussion covered in the "Superlinx" string, or complementary to it?

 

[steveintoronto]

^ @Asher-jo (Mods! I can't get @asher__jo 's addy to link properly. I suspect a software glitch.)(seems to have worked this time)
Please reformat and post again, you make some good points, but to continue you'll need to get the hang of the posting format.

Toronto was (and is still considered) to be a continental leader for servicing suburban areas with high frequency, high coverage, high ridership bus routes. US cities sent their transportation planners to study Toronto's suburban bus route network back in the day.

It just seems to me that we have failed to improve on our early successes, we have been managing the status quo when it comes to our bus system for more than a generation. It is true, we might have an overall good bus system presently (especially compared to majority of our North American counterparts), but as has been articulated, the service still sucks. It doesn't have to suck.

At some point, we're going to have to open a new string with "Transit, Governance and the Future" as part of title surmise. There may already be one extant. But for now:

[...]Over 10 minutes of a morning rush hour, nine extra-sized buses rolled through Buenavista station on Line 1 of Mexico City’s Metrobús. Each was jammed with people, some vehicles packed so tightly that passengers had to muscle their way in, and the swinging doors struggled to move against the crush of bodies.

It’s a bit hectic, but it's a system that's able to move a remarkable number of people. To put this performance in Canadian terms, carrying so many passengers in Toronto would require a regular local bus every 20 seconds.

Evidence of the incredible volumes that could be transported in the dedicated lanes of Mexico’s bus rapid-transit (BRT) network helped kickstart a BRT boom in Latin American and Asian cities, freeing the streets from other traffic and leading to big increases in transit capacity.

But the concept has had limited acceptance in most of the United States and Canada, where buses have traditionally operated in regular traffic, often moving very slowly. Transit watchers say that this lack of respect for bus passengers is related to the vehicle’s broader image problems in North America, where they have long been saddled with the nickname “loser-cruiser,” and light rail is all the rage among urbanists and developers.[...]

What Canada can learn from Mexico City’s bus system
The BRT is a bit hectic but it moves huge volumes of people quickly. Carrying so many passengers in Toronto would require a regular local bus every 20 seconds

OLIVER MOORE
MEXICO CITY
PUBLISHED SEPTEMBER 5, 2018
UPDATED SEPTEMBER 5, 2018
FOR SUBSCRIBERS
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/can...ronto-can-learn-from-mexico-citys-bus-system/

That's as much as I care to push the "Fair Use Doctrine" in one quote. If others aren't subscribed, please ask questions, sections can be quoted further. And if others are subscribed, please add relevant sections for discussion. It's a profound article for our mini-string in this forum.

Further to that:

January 12, 2018
The cold hard truth about Toronto's transport network
By Sanjana Varghese CityMetric

With a population of 2.8 million, projected to grow to 7 million by 2050, Toronto is Canada’s most populated city. While its cultural, social and financial cachet skyrockets, one thing may soon hold it back – it’s public transport system.
[...]
Scholars, community organisers and local politicians have long since called for an expansion of public transport. In 2010, during a local election, concerned citizens residing around poorly serviced areas began the self-explanatory “Subways! Subways! Subways!” campaign, and the projected population growth of the greater Toronto area has led the Toronto Transit Commission (TTC) to promise extensions of the Metrorail subway system, although there has been controversy about whether the extension will reach the right places.

The city's transport woes have much to do with how public transport system was set up in 1849. The first bus routes started taking passengers between Yorkville and St.Lawrence Market, which are located in the centre of the city. Toronto has expanded outwards from there, and so too did Toronto’s transit network, which has led to the current concentration of the most transport links downtown, often around the most wealthy areas.
[...]
The buses come every twenty or so minutes, and are often the only way of getting to a subway station, particularly some that are further out. The result is that during rush hour, they can be jam-packed, leading people (and sometimes children) to wait in freezing temperatures for the next one in the hope of more space. Some of the most recent figures from the TTC highlight that only 68.1 per cent of buses arrive on time. These issues are often exacerbated by traffic congestion on the roads in and out of the city.

Perhaps one of the most confusing parts of Toronto’s transport system is that streetcars comprise a significant part of it – Toronto’s streetcar system is the busiest and geographically, largest, light rail system in North America. While it sounds like a good idea – after all, this is a region with major transport problems – the streetcar runs on the same roads as the cars, meaning it has to stop for red lights, and around 50 per cent of streetcars are late. There’s even a very busy intersection downtown where a streetcar driver has to get out and manually change the tracks because other streetcars run on it.

A study in 2017 found that a monthly transit pass in Toronto, known as a PRESTO card, is among the most expensive in the world at f$150 (£88.40), despite the fact that Toronto’s public transport leaves so much to be desired. A student card is not that much cheaper at $130. And despite recent population growth, Toronto does not operate a zoning system like most other major metropolises – which means that a ride between two stops anywhere on the line will set you back the same amount - $3 for adults, and $2 for concessions.

These shortcomings when the city is growing so rapidly have made transport a hot topic at local elections, not least because it exacerbates a problem with income inequality which is already among the worst anywhere in North America. A comprehensive report from the Martin Prosperity Institute points out that the fractured nature of Toronto’s public transport might as well have generated different towns with differing standards of living.

Another report from the City Institute in York University in 2015 echoed this sentiment, emphasising that the “capillaries” of public transport in Toronto are left to waste away even if they do have some coverage, while prime spaces benefit from continued investment. These capillaries can be found away from downtown and wealthier areas, and instead run throughout the “inner suburbs”. A series of maps, from J.D. Hulchanski’s income polarisation study, clearly demonstrates that transportation systems don’t really cover the areas that might rely on it the most.

As a city lauded for its diversity, you would hope that Toronto’s public transport system would be geared up to cope with the dynamic between immigrants and public transit
[...I have to limit the quoting there, it's an excellently referenced and scathing article. We don't do as well as some of us think... Article is non-paywall, others can quote more at will...]

https://www.citymetric.com/transport/cold-hard-truth-about-torontos-transport-network-3597

The Relief Line is a perfect complement to discussing this mini-string, but this does require a string of its own, or adopting an old one if someone can suggest...the points on 'governance' are unavoidable if this topic isn't to repeat itself endlessly, and it's an essential one to discuss. Keesmaat's initial campaign kick-off cry was a lot more relevant than reality allows.

 

[Midtown Urbanist]

At some point, we're going to have to open a new string with "Transit, Governance and the Future" as part of title surmise. There may already be one extant. But for now:

There is the Superlinx thread

If a mod wants to move posts.

 

[Midtown Urbanist]

What Canada can learn from Mexico City’s bus system
The BRT is a bit hectic but it moves huge volumes of people quickly. Carrying so many passengers in Toronto would require a regular local bus every 20 seconds

Mexico City is not alone. Bogota, Curitiba and other Latin American cities have employed strong BRT systems to deal with their transit needs.

The problem with the comparison is, that this is not really a direct comparison to the problems faced in Toronto. Their BRT systems need to function like our subway system does. Their BRTs are the transit mode that they employ in their urban areas, because they don't have the financial support to develop a metro system. Where the money does exist in Latin America, they have no problem investing in a metro system.

Our bus system is largely a suburban (ex-streetcar and car suburb) system. We shouldn't be expecting to run a bus every 20 seconds, and if we had a route like that, it should be prioritised for higher order transit.

And to bring it back on topic, the purpose of our bus system (and overwhelmingly reflected in our general commuter pattern) should be to feed the rapid transit system. In the case of the Relief Line North, to allow for fast, direct, and comfortable shuttle from your house to any of the RLN stations. The problem is that those buses are stuck in traffic.

 

[steveintoronto]

And to bring it back on topic, the purpose of our bus system (and overwhelmingly reflected in our general commuter pattern) should be to feed the rapid transit system. In the case of the Relief Line North, to allow for fast, direct, and comfortable shuttle from your house to any of the RLN stations. The problem is that those buses are stuck in traffic.

And indeed, take a look at Santiago's *Metro*!

That's no "subway, subway, subway". It's overhead catenary metro.

 

[asher__jo]

Sorry about that @steveintoronto. I'll work on the formatting

 

[steveintoronto]

Sorry about that @steveintoronto. I'll work on the formatting

Jo: None required, I'm having a challenge with the forum software changes too. It doesn't help that there's a melding of two separate internet platforms...parallel universes!

Some of your previous posts on SkyCities are excellent and well-informed, I read back by virtue of being dumped on that site without an automatic sign-in, and so had to skip forward from earlier posts.

Just re-read this:

Their BRTs are the transit mode that they employ in their urban areas, because they don't have the financial support to develop a metro system.

Pardon my inner cynic kicking in here..."they don't have the financial support to develop a metro system" is not that remote from where we are now.

I know a lot of posters will take me to issue on that...but I'm a little longer in the tooth than most, and grizzled in politics most of my life, and I have an awful feeling about the profound silence, and the masking of that...by this present QP regime.

I feel badly for posters clinging onto promises, inferred or factual in words, if not actions, and they're not braced for the vacuum about to 'suck' many of them in.

That word 'suck' may yet be more prophetic than some imagine. It torments me to see second and third world nations now ahead of us. Chile and Colombia are considered to be the most advanced SA nations (apologies to Argentina and Brazil) and even Peru is pushing ahead....and Toronto wallows in political ineptitude.

"Relief Line" could also be a propaganda technique....

 

[11th]

And indeed, take a look at Santiago's *Metro*!

That's no "subway, subway, subway". It's overhead catenary metro.

I don't get though, how is that not "subway, subway, subway"? Seems fully underground with heavy rail rolling stock from the look of the video. Many subway systems use catenary rather than third rail.