[1overcosc]

Ottawa LRT will be 4 cars, at least for peak trains. Shorter trains may be used off-peak.

Here's more info on Ottawa's chosen vehicle, the Alstom Citadis Spirit.

http://www.alstom.com/Global/US/Resources/Documents/Brochure_Citadis Spirit.pdf

The vehicle is actually a new line of Citadis trains designed specially to meet Ottawa's business requirements. Alstom is now marketing it aggressively in North America for other cities to use. Ottawa is their first ever North American customer (they're very much based in Europe with the odd contract in Asia & the Middle East) and they're hoping the city will be their big breakout into that market.

 

[ehlow]

Ottawa LRT will be 4 cars, at least for peak trains. Shorter trains may be used off-peak.

Here's more info on Ottawa's chosen vehicle, the Alstom Citadis Spirit.

http://www.alstom.com/Global/US/Resources/Documents/Brochure_Citadis Spirit.pdf

The vehicle is actually a new line of Citadis trains designed specially to meet Ottawa's business requirements. Alstom is now marketing it aggressively in North America for other cities to use. Ottawa is their first ever North American customer (they're very much based in Europe with the odd contract in Asia & the Middle East) and they're hoping the city will be their big breakout into that market.

Then at 4 car trains this thing is really more of a subway than light rail.. right? A 120m train fully grade separated.

That's a nice looking vehicle, I'm excited for Ottawa.

 

[1overcosc]

Yep. It's for all intents and purposes a subway system.

 

[officedweller]

Ottawa LRT will be 4 cars, at least for peak trains. Shorter trains may be used off-peak.

Will they buy 2-car trains and link 2 x 2-car trains together to get the 4 cars, or buy the full 4-car articulated version?

Seattle has 2-car trainsets that they join together if a longer train is needed. That allows flexibility to run shorter trains in the off hours (saving electricity).

Vancouver does the same with SkyTrains.

 

[W. K. Lis]

With the original Yonge subway, they were thinking that they could make do with a two-car (6-door) Gloucester train at quiet times. They settled on four-car Gloucester trains, but quickly moving up to six-car Gloucester trains in the evenings and weekends with eight-car Gloucester trains during the weekdays.

Today, they use the longer six-car (8-door) trains everywhere, except on Sheppard where its four-car (8-door) trains at all times.

 

[AnarchoSocialist]

So with the Liberals getting re-electing and funding back on about as secure ground as you can get it is essentially a guarantee now that by 2023 this system will see extensions of Confederation line to Bayshore, Baseline, and Orleans completed. Some parts could even be sooner (by maybe a year at most but still) given the overwhelming view to really get this new network going.

The only aspect of expansion over the next 10 years I see changing is what happens to the existing O-Train line. There are some very small and incremental plans for this line and whether it should be going to the airport still seems to be a bit of a debate. Compared to the plans for the rest of the network this line really suffers from the kind of thinking that took place when the line was just seen as pilot project and not much more. My suspicion (for a long list of reasons which I won't drone on about) is that in the next year or two plans for this lines will be revisited and a much bolder, more appropriate approach will be taken for bringing it into the rest of the system. And, for more reasons I won't make an endless list for, I also think it will be the most exciting part of the networks growth outside of the downtown tunnel.

 

[1overcosc]

So with the Liberals getting re-electing and funding back on about as secure ground as you can get it is essentially a guarantee now that by 2023 this system will see extensions of Confederation line to Bayshore, Baseline, and Orleans completed. Some parts could even be sooner (by maybe a year at most but still) given the overwhelming view to really get this new network going.

The only aspect of expansion over the next 10 years I see changing is what happens to the existing O-Train line. There are some very small and incremental plans for this line and whether it should be going to the airport still seems to be a bit of a debate. Compared to the plans for the rest of the network this line really suffers from the kind of thinking that took place when the line was just seen as pilot project and not much more. My suspicion (for a long list of reasons which I won't drone on about) is that in the next year or two plans for this lines will be revisited and a much bolder, more appropriate approach will be taken for bringing it into the rest of the system. And, for more reasons I won't make an endless list for, I also think it will be the most exciting part of the networks growth outside of the downtown tunnel.

The O-Train is less than ideal, but the cost of electrifying & double-tracking it is really high--it would drive the cost of Phase 2 up from $3B up to about $4.1B. With the $1.4B the city is already borrowing for its share of Phase 2 plus a bunch of BRT projects, its getting close to its maximum debt capacity. Keep in mind that when you consider the two phases together, Ottawa is on track to have spent $5.4 billion on transit expansion in just ten years, of which $2.25B comes from municipal money. That's a big expense for a city the size of Ottawa. Unless the Liberals decide to up their contribution from $1B to something like $2B (very possible given the generous envelope for non-GTHA fund), or the feds are more generous than expected (not likely under Harper, but possible under a change of government), the O-Train isn't changing.

 

[AnarchoSocialist]

The O-Train is less than ideal, but the cost of electrifying & double-tracking it is really high--it would drive the cost of Phase 2 up from $3B up to about $4.1B. With the $1.4B the city is already borrowing for its share of Phase 2 plus a bunch of BRT projects, its getting close to its maximum debt capacity. Keep in mind that when you consider the two phases together, Ottawa is on track to have spent $5.4 billion on transit expansion in just ten years, of which $2.25B comes from municipal money. That's a big expense for a city the size of Ottawa. Unless the Liberals decide to up their contribution from $1B to something like $2B (very possible given the generous envelope for non-GTHA fund), or the feds are more generous than expected (not likely under Harper, but possible under a change of government), the O-Train isn't changing.

Your bang on 1overcosc. As of today it's not changing. But, I would argue that there are very few cities in Canada that are seeing the change that Ottawa has gone through in the past 10-15 years, and will continue to experience. Yes, Toronto is becoming more dense. Same with Vancouver. Montreal is reviving itself in its own unique ways. And Ottawa tends to get overlooked but between population growth and the reurbanization of the city with projects like the Domtar lands, the completion of LeBreton Flats, the Wellington/Richmond road corridor, and others, starting to make bigger changes the way the city/region thinks is changing with it.

If you want to talk about really setting out the basic essential network for the city the last two under-addressed parts are the link to the Airport and links to Gatineau. There was "talk" of using the old rail bridge heading north from Bayview station but anyone who has actually seen the shape that bridge is in knows that this could never have been a serious idea. It would have to be rebuilt without question. Connecting the current O-Train line to the Airport, and then interlining it into the rest of the network makes complete sense, and most people know this, but until other business gets out of the way first I don't think anyone is really pushing for it yet, just as by the same token you don't see a lot of focus or spending on that line other than minor upgrades to make the most of it in the meantime. Bayview is also where a link from the Gatineau side would likely meet up with the new network so that complicates things even more.

So basically everything I said would likely drive the Ottawa portion up to the $4.5billion (maybe more) plus whatever the cost of the Gatineau link would be, which would likely be $1 - 1.5 billion unto itself depending on how that was approached. So yes, it would need additional non-municipal funding. And I think that will come sooner rather than later because there is enough interest and forward thinking, logical planning and city growth growing on (there are flaws in the region but it's getting a lot better) that it will be supported. The big change will come with Federal support and the current administration may not be very pro-capital but it hasn't stopped the city from becoming more urban and grown up and with the right administration they could really kick start some change.

 

[gweed123]

I also think that the non-GTHA fund is going to provide some additional money for Ottawa. Remember, the $3B figure and the projects associated with it was what the City came up with based on their debt load projections and an assumed 1/3rd funding split. If they have to ask for another billion for an electrified airport connection, I think the Province would accommodate, especially after the UPX is opened and electrified.

A significant percentage of that non-GTHA funding is for the Toronto-London HSR line, which unless things are way more advanced than we've been let onto, probably won't fall within that 10 year planning horizon. That could allow a lot of that funding to shift to other more shovel-ready projects.

Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but could most of the design/engineering that was used for the original N-S LRT plan that was cancelled not be re-used? Certainly the stretch from Bayview to Riverside South. That could potentially shorten the pre-tender period from years to months. Updated EA (a few tweaks) and some updated engineering drawings and you're good to go for tender.

 

[AnarchoSocialist]

I also think that the non-GTHA fund is going to provide some additional money for Ottawa. Remember, the $3B figure and the projects associated with it was what the City came up with based on their debt load projections and an assumed 1/3rd funding split. If they have to ask for another billion for an electrified airport connection, I think the Province would accommodate, especially after the UPX is opened and electrified.

A significant percentage of that non-GTHA funding is for the Toronto-London HSR line, which unless things are way more advanced than we've been let onto, probably won't fall within that 10 year planning horizon. That could allow a lot of that funding to shift to other more shovel-ready projects.

That is definitely one possible scenario in terms of funding. At the end of the day the cities that are going to best take advantage of the increase in transit funding are the ones that are ready for it. Not just that but the Bayview-Airport line has a strong, clear case for it's importance in the network so it would be a pretty easy sell when the time comes to find additional non-municipal funding.

Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but could most of the design/engineering that was used for the original N-S LRT plan that was cancelled not be re-used? Certainly the stretch from Bayview to Riverside South. That could potentially shorten the pre-tender period from years to months. Updated EA (a few tweaks) and some updated engineering drawings and you're good to go for tender.

I'm 98% certain that much of the EA could be re-used. The only exception would be Bayview (depending on if they interline it into Confederation Line or opt to send it directly across the river). Aside from that the long term goal for the line since it opened as a pilot project (outside of the opinions of a few fringe groups) has been to double and electrify it. Even at the airport when they did their most recent renovations they did so in a way to make sure that an LRT connection could be easily accommodated. So all the right-of-ways, stops, grade separations, is all planned out. The only question mark is what happens at Bayview and that could always be done separately if the goal was to get a jump start on the rest.

While you can certainly find criticisms of Ottawa and its planning and governance when it comes to transit planning it has been pretty meticulous at being able to think 10, 20, even 30 years out and know just what it wants to do. Yes, politics has gotten in the way, which is partly why there was that decade of debate and cancelled plans before the current iteration was adopted and started construction. The city is ready as soon as funding is there. And there aren't going to be any real surprises along the way. They will get phase 2 going and start to look at the current O-Train line. Once they know what to do there they will get that underway. While they are doing that they will begin the EA for Bayshore to Kanata LRT, Baseline to Fallowfield LRT, and Rideau to Rockcliffe via Montreal Rd LRT. Essentially everything for the next 20 years is planned out to varying degrees. There is no doubt that if the opportunities come up Ottawa will be able to take advantage of them very quickly.

 

[gweed123]

That is definitely one possible scenario in terms of funding. At the end of the day the cities that are going to best take advantage of the increase in transit funding are the ones that are ready for it. Not just that but the Bayview-Airport line has a strong, clear case for it's importance in the network so it would be a pretty easy sell when the time comes to find additional non-municipal funding.

Agreed completely. As you mention below, once the EAs and design for the Western LRT extension and Orleans LRT extension are completed, they should begin work on the Kanata, Barrhaven, and Riverside South extensions/lines, even if it's just EAs and preliminary engineering. Get them to the point where if funding does come through, they can be under construction in under 2 years.

This will be especially important because once Phase 1 opens and Phase 2 is under construction, areas that won't get LRT in either of those phases will be clamouring for it, so it would be beneficial to have those extensions as close on the heels of Phases 1 and 2 as possible.

I'm 98% certain that much of the EA could be re-used. The only exception would be Bayview (depending on if they interline it into Confederation Line or opt to send it directly across the river). Aside from that the long term goal for the line since it opened as a pilot project (outside of the opinions of a few fringe groups) has been to double and electrify it. Even at the airport when they did their most recent renovations they did so in a way to make sure that an LRT connection could be easily accommodated. So all the right-of-ways, stops, grade separations, is all planned out. The only question mark is what happens at Bayview and that could always be done separately if the goal was to get a jump start on the rest.

Yup, the Bayview part would need to be changed, but everything south of Bayview would basically be the same as the original plan. Out of curiosity, where on the airport site did they plan to locate the LRT station? Unless I'm missing something, I don't see a really clear approach path or station location.

 

[AnarchoSocialist]

Yup, the Bayview part would need to be changed, but everything south of Bayview would basically be the same as the original plan. Out of curiosity, where on the airport site did they plan to locate the LRT station? Unless I'm missing something, I don't see a really clear approach path or station location.

I will have to go digging through my archives for the best plans I saw of it but essentially it just follows the rail ROW south from Glenboro and then swings west, running next to the Airport Parkway (and threading between that road and the EV Centre), and then there would be a small elevated portion at the end with the station being between the terminal and main parking garage.

The Citizen posted some construction photos. Here it the link http://ottawacitizen.com/gallery/0627-lrt and here are a few pictures I liked pulled from that gallery.

 

[1overcosc]

A new status update on the Confederation Line showing the specific timing of all project components in 2014. Among the interesting highlights is that Hurdman station appears to start construction in November, 3 months before the original schedule. So far its looking good for a possible early opening!

http://www.confederationline.ca/wp-...07/2014-Confederation-Line-Look-Ahead_ENG.pdf

 

[gweed123]

A new status update on the Confederation Line showing the specific timing of all project components in 2014. Among the interesting highlights is that Hurdman station appears to start construction in November, 3 months before the original schedule. So far its looking good for a possible early opening!

http://www.confederationline.ca/wp-...07/2014-Confederation-Line-Look-Ahead_ENG.pdf

Looks like it's guideway construction around Hurdman, but yes it is sooner than expected.

Interestingly, construction of Lyon Station isn't scheduled to begin until July 2016, but the cavern for Lyon Station is already pretty far underway. Once they finish that cavern, it's only a couple hundred metres to the central shaft, at which point the tunnelling work on that part of the line will be complete. Are they really going to just let it sit there for over a year? Parliament Station isn't that far behind Lyon, and it's scheduled to begin in April 2016. The only one that may be delayed is Rideau, and that's because of the situation that the East Roadheader had. They can maybe speed it up a bit by having the central and eastern shaft roadheaders dig the Rideau cavern at the same time from opposite ends.

 

[Markster]

In case anyone needed a reminder of why the DRL is a technical nightmare:

http://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-news/ottawa-lrt-excavation-pierces-parking-garage-wall-downtown

Ottawa LRT excavation pierces parking garage wall downtown

Tunnelling for Ottawa’s light-rail transit project hit a bump Wednesday night in the form of a parking garage wall.

Two rock bolts being used during the excavation process penetrated the parking garage wall of the Sun Life building on the corner of Queen and O’Connor streets downtown, a few blocks from Parliament Hill.

Building subways in downtowns is hard.