[NotAToy]

While I'm not so keen on this idea of planning new cities, if we were to expand an existing centre, I think Kingston has a lot going for it and should be in the running. On the lake, with a diverse economy already. On 401 and rail lines, possible future HSR stop on a Toronto-Ottawa-Montreal line. Historic downtown.

For existing communities, I think that Hamilton should grow, and Barrie should become a regional center. Question: How much can Milton expand? Kingston is far from all current urban centers, both an asset and a liability as it can grow without merging, yet it makes immigrants not want to live there.

For bedroom communities, I think that the Lakeshore East GO can be extended to Peterborough. (For now, stick with Bowmanville/Clarington). Limit sprawl to west of the 115. HSR to Peterborough works too.

 

[WislaHD]

There is plenty of land in places where civilization already exists or exists nearby before any barren outpost will start to see any sort of modern colonization - St. Catharines & Niagara for one, the region of Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge/Guelph for another, and eventually I think the holiday nation that's been created in PEC over the last ten years is going to spill up to Trenton and Belleville. Barrie and basically everything between the 400 and Georgian Bay are already being filled up, as has been mentioned here the 7 corridor west of Brampton has intensification written all over it, Oshawa is going to eventually have a massive plot of land where GM is right now to develop and places in SW Ontario like London and Windsor have post secondary institutions that can start leading to more permanent residents instead of people taking their law degrees etc. back to the GTA.

We'll all be long gone by the time any new major development or city begins construction on currently unoccupied land unless something very unexpected forces it.

I don't believe that the people engaged in this discussion think that creating a new urban centre is preferable to intensification of the already built-up area. It is more supposition of if we were to follow that direction for whatever reason, where would be the proper places to built an urban centre be?

 

[MisterF]

Viewing mid 1800s town design through a 21st century high density urban lens.

Some of the streets are wide (can't say I recall seeing any that are 7 lanes wide, but anyway . . . ) but narrowing them at great taxpayer expense would only result in wider boulevards. It's a town of about 7000 people that has essentially been stable for 40 years, not urban Toronto.

It's not a high density urban lens at all. It's a small town lens. Narrow streets are far more common in small town downtowns than wide stretches of asphalt. The pavement width of the main street in nearby Kinkardine, for example, is half the width of what Goderich has. A broad street doesn't have to have so much space taken up by asphalt. It could be wider sidewalks, parallel parking instead of diagonal, narrower lanes, planting beds, even linear parks of some sort. The amount of space is huge and the possibilities are endless.

The 1800s planning you mention has been lost in modern suburban planning. I think I can safely say that John Galt wasn't planning his streets to have 25 metres of asphalt dedicated to cars in 1828. And yes, at 3.5 metres per lane that's 7 lanes worth of asphalt. A greener, more creative use of some of that space would be vastly preferable to what's there.

Every street has to be rebuilt eventually.

For bedroom communities, I think that the Lakeshore East GO can be extended to Peterborough. (For now, stick with Bowmanville/Clarington). Limit sprawl to west of the 115. HSR to Peterborough works too.

Via Rail's planned HFR route goes through Peterborough, so it will be served by some form of commuter rail if HFR is built.

 

[44 North]

Made this image awhile ago and finally exported it. Basically a cut/paste of high density areas from Toronto and put overtop this selected area that is Port Maitland, ringed by a forest buffer. I think it has all the ingredients to be *the* new city location. Rail link, airfield nearby, a town close enough that one could argue it's an expansion of (Dunnville 5km away), flat land that's easy to build on, on a great lake and the mouth of the Grand, virtually no preexisting population other than some cottages. Even has an abandoned canal to Welland. The city would be virtually car-free, and it has a direct rail link to Toronto (only requiring 15km of returning an abandoned ROW between Oshwego Park and Smithville).

Obviously it'd be smarter to urbanize existing towns and cities across Ontario. Lots of room to do that. But it is fun to imagine.

Having said that I think a result of this Covid stuff will be an eventual big push toward far outward sprawl. Expansive rural-like suburbs will be in again just as they were in the 50s. They were always in, but current caps will be removed to allow it to happen. Also people cooped up at home will lead to a large baby boom.

 

[ShonTron]

The provincial government had ideas like that in the 1970s. I suggest looking up the history of Townsend.

 

[MisterF]

Having said that I think a result of this Covid stuff will be an eventual big push toward far outward sprawl. Expansive rural-like suburbs will be in again just as they were in the 50s. They were always in, but current caps will be removed to allow it to happen.

People said the same thing after 9/11. There were a lot of predictions that this was the end of the skyscraper, yet what followed was the biggest skyscraper boom in history. High density cities have persevered through terrorist attacks, natural disasters, warfare, and outbreaks of disease many times in the past. I don't think this will be any different.

 

[WislaHD]

Obviously it'd be smarter to urbanize existing towns and cities across Ontario. Lots of room to do that. But it is fun to imagine.

Yes, it is fun!

I would suggesting building a twin sister town across the Grand River of roughly the same size.

 

[44 North]

The provincial government had ideas like that in the 1970s. I suggest looking up the history of Townsend.

Sorry I should've quoted from the previous page where the Townsend article was discussed. It was actually the impetus that started the idea. It's eye-opening and I've read it several times over the years.. What this would be is a 21st C twist on the concept.

People said the same thing after 9/11. There were a lot of predictions that this was the end of the skyscraper, yet what followed was the biggest skyscraper boom in history. High density cities have persevered through terrorist attacks, natural disasters, warfare, and outbreaks of disease many times in the past. I don't think this will be any different.

Toronto would be fine and I certainly wouldn't go extreme and claim nobody's going to want high-density living or highrises. However with people cooped up in a small space and/or fearing contagion, a re-think about how they'd want to live if given the choice. A condo closer to work, or a townhouse/semi far out in the boonies. I do believe we'll see the results in a few years and don't think it's extreme to think that we'll see an increase in people opting for farther out living and long commuting.

 

[44 North]

Yes, it is fun!

I would suggesting building a twin sister town across the Grand River of roughly the same size.

Part of me would like that. For symmetry and to sort of urbanize the river in a planned, non-ad hoc way like many Great cities have. Mostly wasn't because I did a quick and dirty cut paste to put where it fit. A couple Yonge-Eglinton's, a couple Humber Bay, and I think some Cabbagetown and City Places.

However there's a Prov Park to the east. And more homes that would be demolished. Workable. But another is that I wouldn't want to infringe on the river too much. What I would like to see is a renaturalization that is part and parcel of the urbanization. All these farming areas were once thriving wetlands that were drained and filled in. To counter that all the fill from the city would be used to create a series of islands at the mouth of the Grand. Like Leslie Spit, in only a few years it'd become a thriving habitat. It would serve as a model modern city with the right balance between protected nature and high-density urban.

 

[Bjays92]

Revisiting this thread after my comment a while back. If we're talking about existing cities that should grow I think a lot of people are sleeping on kitchener.

It has several major companies downtown, is a tech startup hub, has an lrt, a transit hub being built right downtown which would be suitable for hsr. An ambitious airport expansion plan, with the airport being situated 15-20 mins outside downtown at most, and a half dozen skyscrapers under construction at least with a couple nearing 40 stories or more.

 

[north-of-anything]

Revisiting this thread after my comment a while back. If we're talking about existing cities that should grow I think a lot of people are sleeping on kitchener.

It has several major companies downtown, is a tech startup hub, has an lrt, a transit hub being built right downtown which would be suitable for hsr. An ambitious airport expansion plan, with the airport being situated 15-20 mins outside downtown at most, and a half dozen skyscrapers under construction at least with a couple nearing 40 stories or more.

Don't all those things prove that Kitchener is already growing? Earmarking more of Kitchener/Waterloo for intensification is noble, and it very well should be able to relieve some pressure off of Toronto/York/Peel, but I think other people meant which existing cities that don't have all those plans in the works could use some beefing up.

I think Kingston, as mentioned earlier, or Belleville are strong candidates. Belleville in particular is close to Toronto and has an existing base in both Belleville itself and nearby Trenton and PEC, but I think it also has a direct rail link to Ottawa. Belleville also has a lot of undeveloped land right near Loyalist College, which could theoretically be used to expand the college, set up a university satellite campus, and provide lots of off-campus housing for students. If nothing else, the Belleville-Kingston area can fill quite a few niches that right now can only be found in Ottawa and west of Peterborough.

Although I do agree that Niagara, London, and Windsor could also absorb more growth.

 

[SunriseChampion]

Yes, it is fun!

I would suggesting building a twin sister town across the Grand River of roughly the same size.

I was actually wondering why it couldn't be centred on the Grand, but your idea is even better, I reckon!

 

[WislaHD]

I was actually wondering why it couldn't be centred on the Grand, but your idea is even better, I reckon!

The logic would be that each settlement would get their stop on the HSR line.

 

[SunriseChampion]

I was thinking football rivalries, of course. ?

 

[W. K. Lis]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1279404559732027393

I would strike-through "garage" and write in "storage space", and have the motor vehicles parked on the driveway.