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tiffer24 said:
As the trade war starts to boil...


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Daniel Dale
23 mins ago

Trudeau’s approval numbers have slipped in the last year, but there’s broad support for him on trade. Abacus poll finds: 71% of Canadians endorse the retaliation, including 65% of Conservative voters.

http://abacusdata.ca/canadians-mad-...taliation-millions-want-to-do-their-own-part/
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It's quite clear the Trudeau wants this to distract from his other troubles, and so he can run the 2019 campaign against Trump.
 
Well, Scheer isn't part of the united front, so it makes sense. Charles Adler posted a Twitter thread about this, warning conservatives that if they don't stop siding with Trump, next year will be a disaster for them.
 
BurlOak said:
It's quite clear the Trudeau wants this to distract from his other troubles, and so he can run the 2019 campaign against Trump.
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I don't think any reasonable politician relish this kind of distraction. Let's be blunt, what do *you* suggest a sitting PM should do? Cultivate a "better relationship" with a madman with a penchant for authoritarianism? There are potentially no winners - only losers in this. These are geopolitical crises of the likes we haven't seen for the past 25 (if not 50+) years - and if all you can think of is someone solely using this as a way to "own the opposition" and not how challenging it will be to navigate this issue on behalf of the country, you've spent too much time engaging in partisanship and not enough governing.

AoD
 
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Videodrome said:
It is sad that Canadian conservatives are siding with Trump on the tariffs.
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Or pathetic. In total contrast to the support which Brian Mulroney has lent to the current government in an effort to head this off. Let me reiterate. Pathetic.

The same garbage we are seeing in Washington DC. More important to be Tory than Canadian. Just as it’s more important in some circles to be a loyal Trump Republican than it is a loyal American citizen.

Politics over citizenship.

I would make Scheer pay for this at the ballot box.
 
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BurlOak said:
It's quite clear the Trudeau wants this to distract from his other troubles, and so he can run the 2019 campaign against Trump.
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Um......I'm not even sure this is worthy of a response.

Yeah, Trudeau wants a trade war to distract people from what exactly?

What the hell is in your water?

I'm no fan of his government but I'm damn proud of them for slapping down retaliatory tariffs that are higher in value than the American ones.
Appeasement is a disaster and I don't want a government as idiotic as Chamberlain's, the king appeasing weasel. (WW2 could have easily been prevented if that dick wasn't in charge).
 
AlvinofDiaspar said:
I don't think any reasonable politician relish this kind of distraction. Let's be blunt, what do *you* suggest a sitting PM should do? Cultivate a "better relationship" with a madman with a penchant for authoritarianism? There are potentially no winners - only losers in this. These are geopolitical crises of the likes we haven't seen for the past 25 (if not 50+) years - and if all you can think of is someone solely using this as a way to "own the opposition" and not how challenging it will be to navigate this issue on behalf of the country, you've spent too much time engaging in partisanship and not enough governing.

AoD
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  1. Have options for trade. Northern Gateway was already approved. Energy East was almost there, and Trans Mountain was close. With all of these approved, we have redundancy in case 1 has a hiccup.
  2. Stick to trade. Leave your pet projects of gender and indigenous rights, and intersectionalities to a different forum and not part of a trade deal
  3. Realizing that USA can opt out of trade deal anyway, throw a bone and accept a sunset clause - and assume degotiations will be no worse than now, but you bought yourself 5 years.
  4. Cut out the backhanded insults of Trump. Most recent at commencement address in USA, he equated Climate denial to FGM.
Harper put some water in his wine and found a way to get along with Obama. When Obama strengthened the buy America Clauses at the start of the recession, he found a number of other trade deals.

There's also a whole list of other things related to security that he did wrong, that also affected our reputation in the negotiations.
 
BurlOak said:
  1. Have options for trade. Northern Gateway was already approved. Energy East was almost there, and Trans Mountain was close. With all of these approved, we have redundancy in case 1 has a hiccup.
  2. Stick to trade. Leave your pet projects of gender and indigenous rights, and intersectionalities to a different forum and not part of a trade deal
  3. Realizing that USA can opt out of trade deal anyway, throw a bone and accept a sunset clause - and assume degotiations will be no worse than now, but you bought yourself 5 years.
  4. Cut out the backhanded insults of Trump. Most recent at commencement address in USA, he equated Climate denial to FGM.
Harper put some water in his wine and found a way to get along with Obama. When Obama strengthened the buy America Clauses at the start of the recession, he found a number of other trade deals.

There's also a whole list of other things related to security that he did wrong, that also affected our reputation in the negotiations.
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1. You can't replace trade in services and industry with just commodities - particularly oil, and we have already completed CETA and in progress on TPP (without US involvement). Other potential, large trading partners (e.g. China) may require so much give that it becomes untenable for national security reasons alone.
2. That has zero bearing on US belligerence on this file (it may be your pet complaint however)
3. As others have already explained in greater detail - you don't sign deals of this sort with a sunset clause - it basically signals permanent uncertainty and provides a huge lever for the other party. That's capitulation and I am sure you are not advocating for that.
4. No one is going to care about comparing climate denial to FGM in some obscure commencement address in the US.

If you want to compare Obama and his broader attitude towards Canada vs. Trump, and how Harper "sucked it up" so that he could prevent a "trade war" as an analogy to the broad US assault on the basic tenants of the trade agreement and multilaterlism in general, I am not sure you have any chips in your deck, because last time I checked Obama threatened to tear up NAFTA multiple times right?

As to our reputation during the negotiations - Canada isn't the country with a reputational deficit - particularly acting in bad faith - going into this.

AoD
 
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Fact is, Trump doesn't understand how trade works, its benefits, and the hazards of protectionism. He also doesn't know his history as it relates to trade (or probably, just in general).

The adults are trying to educate him. This is a good thing. If he happens to get offended then there isn't much one can do. You don't let off the pressure because the bullying man-child starts moaning.
 
I've actually never understood why we abide the softwood lumber dispute.

If we terminated all timber exports to the U.S. they would have an acute shortage.
 
Unfortunately folks, we are not living in the geographic heart of Europe. We are living next to this bully. The auto industry is highly integrated. No disagreement with the sentiments, but this will hurt and it will reduce the standard of living when we need money for a lot of things which we hold dear - mental health, subways! and deficits.
 
tiffer24 said:
Trump adviser Peter Navarro tells Fox News this morning:
"This is a direct attack on our political system. There's a special place in hell for any foreign leader that engages in bad faith diplomacy with Donald J Trump and then tries to stab him in the back on the way out the door."
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Peter Navarro is a nasty piece of work. I took an instant dislike to him the first time I heard him speak. Vituperative bully.
 
TransitBart said:
Unfortunately folks, we are not living in the geographic heart of Europe. We are living next to this bully. The auto industry is highly integrated. No disagreement with the sentiments, but this will hurt and it will reduce the standard of living when we need money for a lot of things which we hold dear - mental health, subways! and deficits.
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True, but things are not always what they seem on the surface.

Example. The U.S. gets over 1/2 of its Aluminum from Canada.

It gets well shy of 20% domestically, much lower if you get down to the ore supply level.

We sufficiently own that sector, such that ALCOA raised its prices 25% plus in anticipation of the tariffs back in early spring, there has been no decline in orders.

The US can re-open a couple of small smelters, they can't replace the Canadian supply, at least not for more than another 5 years plus, and an incredible cost.

So, if you were were an aluminum dependent manufacturer, who might face more than 1B in new input costs, but not face any if your factory was in Canada.....what would you do?

Let's be clear, I don't expect any wholesale moves of parts factories or assembly operations at this point, far too early, and Trump is too unpredictable, but I don't see it going the other way as it would cost too much.

Also, if US did destabilize our economy at all, what would happen? Our currency would drop increasing our advantage, both domestically and internationally.

Trump is a dangerous buffoon and a nuisance, but not yet a serious threat (he could become one....but let's not go there shall we)
 
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