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So, Harper is on board with the PM, but Scheer can't be part of it. Damage control to help the CPC?
 
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tiffer24 said:
Stephen Harper, this morning, on Fox News: "I get that there are issues with China and maybe Mexico, but "I don't understand the obsession with trade relations with Canada...This is the wrong target."

"Canada is the biggest single purchaser of US goods and services in the world...This is the wrong target. And from what I understand of American public opinion, I don't think even Trump supporters think the Canadian trade relationship is a problem."
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I really want to know where this version of Harper was for all those years he was in office.
 
There was a largely symbolic vote in the House today to condemn the US tariffs and it passed without opposition. Meanwhile, CPC senators are still attacking Trudeau and refuse to join the united front.

I really want to know where this version of Harper was for all those years he was in office.
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I figured he would suck up to Trump to be honest.
 
tiffer24 said:
Well...

Donald J. Trump‏Verified account@realDonaldTrump
Our Great Larry Kudlow, who has been working so hard on trade and the economy, has just suffered a heart attack. He is now in Walter Reed Medical Center.
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Damn, now I feel bad. I just watched a bunch of interviews with him and was thinking about what a c*** he is. The guy seems perma-drunk or hopped on benzos making him seem detached from reality and fond of talking straight rubbish.
 
Videodrome said:
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/pol...s-attack-on-canadas-supply-management-system/

Maxime Bernier is tone deaf.
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Nah, just dedicated.

I'm with him on this. His timing is shite though. Could have waited a couple of weeks.
We should be rid of supply management. If the Yanks think I'd buy their milk or poultry (never mind cheese and yoghourt) they're trippin'.
Let them try selling it here. I doubt their producers' costs are low enough to make them competitive exporters of products we are able to provide for ourselves.
 
Yeah, the timing is just awful. Bernier admits that if he had been in the chamber, there would have been one no vote. That is horrible optics!

I just watched Harper's interview on Fox and he impressed me.
 
MTown said:
Let them try selling it here. I doubt their producers' costs are low enough to make them competitive exporters of products we are able to provide for ourselves.
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Ummm.

Regular price on store-brand butter at Wegmans (think Longos in Buffalo, NY) is $2.69USD per pound; while store brand 2% milk is $1.79USD per gallon and a dozen organic eggs are $3.99USD

In fairness, let's make those prices CAD; $3.37, $2.25 and $4.99 respectively.

That is markedly cheaper than prices here in Toronto.

Supply management is a flawed system; however, the US industry is deeply subsidized by the US Federal government.

The effect is that up to 73% of their cost is recovered through subsidy. That number is close to zero in Canada (there are some crop insurance subsides that have an indirect role).

If one is talking about non-organic product, it is true that a good chunk of US dairy comes from cattle that have received Bovine Growth Hormone, which most Canadians, myself included, would oppose.

However, that would not be true for organic dairy, and typical prices appear to be about 40-50% lower in the US in that segment; Wegman's Organic Butter is $4.49USD/$5.62CAD vs $9.99 at Loblaws.

If we scrapped supply management, our industry, as we know it would be toast.

Allow unfettered access to our market with a restriction that no dairy contain BGH would help some.

But we would need the industry to be more competitive AND we would still the need the US to reduce subsides, or (more likely, as there would be a backlash in the US if dairy prices rose 50%) we would have to match their program of subsidies at a cost of around 4B a year in Federal subsides.

Supply management allows full cost recovery (with profit) without subsidy.

The issue is rather more nuanced than either side lets on.

If our industry scaled up the size of dairy farms and production, we could come closer to competing on price; organic is also artificially inflated by the dairy pricing folks to a level that makes no sense, but I digress.

We still require subsidy, a tariff wall or supply management unless changes are made on both sides of the border.
 
Northern Light said:
Ummm.

Regular price on store-brand butter at Wegmans (think Longos in Buffalo, NY) is $2.69USD per pound; while store brand 2% milk is $1.79USD per gallon and a dozen organic eggs are $3.99USD

In fairness, let's make those prices CAD; $3.37, $2.25 and $4.99 respectively.

That is markedly cheaper than prices here in Toronto.

Supply management is a flawed system; however, the US industry is deeply subsidized by the US Federal government.

The effect is that up to 73% of their cost is recovered through subsidy. That number is close to zero in Canada (there are some crop insurance subsides that have an indirect role).

If one is talking about non-organic product, it is true that a good chunk of US dairy comes from cattle that have received Bovine Growth Hormone, which most Canadians, myself included, would oppose.

However, that would not be true for organic dairy, and typical prices appear to be about 40-50% lower in the US in that segment; Wegman's Organic Butter is $4.49USD/$5.62CAD vs $9.99 at Loblaws.

If we scrapped supply management, our industry, as we know it would be toast.

Allow unfettered access to our market with a restriction that no dairy contain BGH would help some.

But we would need the industry to be more competitive AND we would still the need the US to reduce subsides, or (more likely, as there would be a backlash in the US if dairy prices rose 50%) we would have to match their program of subsidies at a cost of around 4B a year in Federal subsides.

Supply management allows full cost recovery (with profit) without subsidy.

The issue is rather more nuanced than either side lets on.

If our industry scaled up the size of dairy farms and production, we could come closer to competing on price; organic is also artificially inflated by the dairy pricing folks to a level that makes no sense, but I digress.

We still require subsidy, a tariff wall or supply management unless changes are made on both sides of the border.
Click to expand...

It's not just growth hormones. The US permits mass use of antibiotics and other drugs that have been found necessary in large scale, high density operations, many of which are banned here. If a 'food purity wall' was erected to prevent those products from crossing the border, the US would argue that it is an unfair barrier.

Agreed that the US has perpetrated that myth for years that their agricultural industry is largely free of government assistance.

Another thorny issue, should supply management go on the table, is the millions that dairy farmers have spent to buy their milk quotas. If the system were to end, they would argue that they should be compensated for something that they were required to purchase and is now made worthless by government decision.
 
You mean the way owners of taxi medallions were compensated for the decline in value they suffered because the City allowed Uber?
 
Northern Light said:
Ummm.

Regular price on store-brand butter at Wegmans (think Longos in Buffalo, NY) is $2.69USD per pound; while store brand 2% milk is $1.79USD per gallon and a dozen organic eggs are $3.99USD

In fairness, let's make those prices CAD; $3.37, $2.25 and $4.99 respectively.

That is markedly cheaper than prices here in Toronto.

Supply management is a flawed system; however, the US industry is deeply subsidized by the US Federal government.

The effect is that up to 73% of their cost is recovered through subsidy. That number is close to zero in Canada (there are some crop insurance subsides that have an indirect role).

If one is talking about non-organic product, it is true that a good chunk of US dairy comes from cattle that have received Bovine Growth Hormone, which most Canadians, myself included, would oppose.

However, that would not be true for organic dairy, and typical prices appear to be about 40-50% lower in the US in that segment; Wegman's Organic Butter is $4.49USD/$5.62CAD vs $9.99 at Loblaws.

If we scrapped supply management, our industry, as we know it would be toast.

Allow unfettered access to our market with a restriction that no dairy contain BGH would help some.

But we would need the industry to be more competitive AND we would still the need the US to reduce subsides, or (more likely, as there would be a backlash in the US if dairy prices rose 50%) we would have to match their program of subsidies at a cost of around 4B a year in Federal subsides.

Supply management allows full cost recovery (with profit) without subsidy.

The issue is rather more nuanced than either side lets on.

If our industry scaled up the size of dairy farms and production, we could come closer to competing on price; organic is also artificially inflated by the dairy pricing folks to a level that makes no sense, but I digress.

We still require subsidy, a tariff wall or supply management unless changes are made on both sides of the border.
Click to expand...

Hold on, part of the high cost here is caused by the supply management system.

Obviously we can't allow access to heavily subsidised dairy and poultry, but if they are serious about business then death to supply management for death to their subsidies is more than fair. Sink or swim or don't talk about free markets and free trade.

It's extremely hypocritical (of either party in this dispute) to be going on about how much they're for free trade while you have a pseudo-communist command economy in certain sectors. Ditto for Trump and Co. crying about supply management whilst subisidising their farmers to that degree.
As for the BGH, that's a no-brainer. This is why I said they must be trippin' if they think I'd buy their milk. Well, that and the fact that I almost exclusively buy Canadian fresh food products (milk, meat, produce, eggs, etc)....only exception is American kale when ours isn't in season and like an avocado once or twice a year. They can keep their kale anyway, I'll just switch full-time to Ontario cabbage in the off season.

Man, I'm still of the mind that we should just cut and run with these folk anyway. If I was the boss of bosses, Canada would be joining the EU and NAFTA would be an afterthought....and at this point, just a bad dream. The only problem is the mathematical formula for trade loss of value as distance to market increases but at least there'd be certainty. I reckon we have more in common with most of Europe than we do with our neighbours as far as socio-economics and politics are concerned.

America can go and do America first. They can try and be fully self-sufficient or whatever the Trump folk are attempting.
 
lenaitch said:
Another thorny issue, should supply management go on the table, is the millions that dairy farmers have spent to buy their milk quotas. If the system were to end, they would argue that they should be compensated for something that they were required to purchase and is now made worthless by government decision.
Click to expand...

That might be thorny but it alone is no reason to continue with supply management ad infinitum. I'm sure they could be compensated. We have lots of money in this country. For example, enough to pay inflated prices for dairy, eggs, and poultry.
 
Don't the major pizza chains have a special clause that allows them to buy American cheese? That probably partly explains why our chains make such bad pizza.

If the market was opened the Canadian producers would be decimated. Most people probably don't look at the country of origin for products like milk .
 
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