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I don't think there's a good or satisfying answer to that.

It really depends on what you expect the military to be capable of.

If you want a military capable of withstanding an all-out assault by the U.S., Russia or China without allied help..............we can't possibly spend that much money. We could easily put a few warheads on missiles for the sake of MAD, but that's about it.

If you want a military that can provide high-quality Search and Rescue, natural disaster support, and limited coastal and border protections against commercial or personal (not state) intrusion (foreign fishing in Canadian waters or such) then that's very do-able and much less expensive; though very different from today's focus.

If you want something in the middle, you have to answer a lot of questions about the value that produces; because its going to be expensive.

Today, Canada's military is ranked by international publications somewhere between #21 in the world and #26.

More powerful than many would think; but inconsequential to the truly big players.

Taking for granted we literally can't spend our way to number #1,2 or 3 the world.

Further considering that #1 is on southern and north-western border with Russia just beyond.

I think its a live question to ask; do we gain enough as a nation by powering up to say #15 in the world?

If that means spending like Pakistan (Ranked #15) it would be mean spending potentially 4% of GDP.

In truth we could probably manage less; but to climb to that level would certainly mean a 50% increase in spend.

That ain't chump change.

It is worth it?

What would we gain?

All very good questions with no easy answer. The inherent problem with Canada is its vast, nigh-indefensible landmass with a very low population concentrated almost entirely along the US border. Also, given that the world's number 1 power is our next door neighbour, ramping up military spending would likely be a waste of resources given that no matter how much we spend, the US could invade and conquer us with ease in a very short amount of time, should they ever choose to do so. Thankfully, the fact that they are our traditional ally and biggest trading partner, it would also be in their interest to defend Canada against any other foreign attack.
 
All very good questions with no easy answer. The inherent problem with Canada is its vast, nigh-indefensible landmass with a very low population concentrated almost entirely along the US border. Also, given that the world's number 1 power is our next door neighbour, ramping up military spending would likely be a waste of resources given that no matter how much we spend, the US could invade and conquer us with ease in a very short amount of time, should they ever choose to do so. Thankfully, the fact that they are our traditional ally and biggest trading partner, it would also be in their interest to defend Canada against any other foreign attack.
Not since the late 1800s has Canada worried about invasion from the USA. That’s never been a factor in our 20th and 21st century defence planning. Canada‘s defence has three pillars, NORAD, NATO and UN. The latter is mostly stomping on some poor third world bastards who‘ve has the misfortune of crossing a majority vote of the UN.

I expect we’ll run down spending on all three. The days of sending Canadian blue helmets are Over, I’d say.
 
No inside trading information, just an interested observer, but if we are looking for an official position on what we want our military to be, the latest white paper Strong, Secure, Engaged is helpful:


It boils down to:
- Domestic: SAR, Aid to the Civil Power, Sovereignty
- NORAD and NATO commitments
- UN engagement

The spending projections (they don't qualify as estimates) do not include upgrades to arctic surveillance, which I don't recall even being mentioned in the paper.

The problem is, like all policy papers that have preceded it over the years, it is just pretty words on paper. No Canadian politician of any party actually wants to spend money on the military because there are no votes in it. The military and foreign policy are, at best, a short throwaway line in an election platform. In terms of operational prowess and bravery by our military personnel, we are historically recognized internationally and 'punch above our weight. In terms of our interantional relations, it seems we are prone to talk loudly and carry a small stick. It's like we agree to co-host a lavish party then bring the napkins while others do all the rest. We, the electorate perennially allows them to get away with it. 'Who''s going to invade us' and 'the US will protect us are, in my view, specious arguments. Yes, push come to shove, the US would probably protect us, but they would unilaterally do it their way and on their timing and terms, in support of their interests, not ours. We have never started a conflict and will never be able to take on a peer-adversary by ourselves, and we shouldn't aspire to, but if we are going to be part of our alliances, we need to do our share.

In terms of equipment, mid-life life extensions are fine to a point, but there are often limits what you can upgrade a particular platform to do. At some point, they are just very well running old things. My buddy's 1950 Ford pick-up running like a Swiss watch but it's still as capable as a 1950 Ford pick-up. We probably wring more life out of a platform and use them well past their best before date than probably any other mature nation. As well, they can have a nasty habit of simply crapping out at the most inopportune time. Our last destroyer and both our remaining supply ships were determined to be unseaworthy long before there was a program to replace them. Many of the platforms are older than the folks that operate them and the list of aging equipment is growing because the programs to replace them keep stopped and restarted then kicked down the road. I actually don't blame the military professionals for wanting the best of the best; it's their ass on the line, but they know that their kids or grand kids will still be using them. Although they are not without their problems, as a peer nation in terms of population, GDP and world status, Australia seems to get a lot more bag for their pretty similar buck.

Defence funding is always treated as discretionary spending. For certain, the current economic situation is dire, but I'm not convinced defence spending will be any the worse for it - it's always going to be like pulling teeth whether we are $300Bn in debt or rolling in dough. I'm not certain, but I believe the costing for many of the platforms, such a fighters and frigates, does include long term costs, so it's not like the figures that get published will be spent over one or even two or three budget cycles. I'm not knowledgeable enough to posit which replacement is better than the next, but know that the ultimate decision is as much, is not more, a political one than an operational one.
 
Is this WE thing registering to anyone but hardcore political types?
It doesn't seem to be. I think most people see an executive trying to do some nimble business thinking to get an urgent job done fast using connections he already had rather than rely on the beauracracy. The question that will never be investigated or answered is if the WE Charity was selected because Trudeau (or someone who works for him) deliberately framed the proposal such that no other organisation would be able to be considered; a sort of rigged evaluation where the base criteria eliminate everyone else. They anti-Trudeau beigade isn't interested in that now that a door has been opened to "CALL THE POLICE!" and investigate everything outside of it. Investigations matter more than the payoff from them in the bubbles of the non-moderates. It's on the same lines as "BUT HER EMAILS".
 
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Is this WE thing registering to anyone but hardcore political types?

No, he could probably get away with it, but I think there is a fundamental lack of care that is highly problematical in my books. Even if it is an efficient way to disburse funding, he should have reclused himself from the vote - especially since it is sole-sourced. Process and optics matter.

The greater issue is probably the degree to which WE had access to our political elite - MacKay is deleting his social media postings about his wife's speaking engagement with the org; Erin O'Toole himself is also involved as well.

AoD
 
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Thing is most of the younger to millennial crowd get news from John Oliver or Patriot Act Show Youtube Clips or just comedy news or talk shows in general or meme channels on Instagram. They dont read newspapers even articles on websites.

The joke is that 6ixbuzz likely is a bigger source of news in the GTA then some newspapers.

A lot of people watch these shows and magically seem to start caring about issues they knew nothing about because some guy spoke about it for 5 mins sounding smart.
Then go on Twitter to show how much they care about an issue.

So until a political issue reaches there, I would say almost this entire group knows Nothing about it and this issue is not funny or interesting enough.
 
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Thing is most of the younger to millennial crowd get news from John Oliver or Patriot Act Show Youtube Clips or just comedy news or talk shows in general or meme channels on Instagram. They dont read newspapers even articles on websites.

The joke is that 6ixbuzz likely is a bigger source of news in the GTA then some newspapers.

A lot of people watch these shows and magically seem to start caring about issues they knew nothing about because some guy spoke about it for 5 mins sounding smart.
Then go on Twitter to show how much they care about an issue.

So until a political issue reaches there, I would say almost this entire group knows Nothing about it and this issue is not funny or interesting enough.
Even Wikipedia is more trustworthy! That's despite the fact that (almost) anyone can edit (almost) any article and many of the more popular and/or controversial articles are at least semi-protected.

 
Justin Trudeau drops into another pitfall of his own making
There was always going to be an odour coming off the WE arrangement — money just made it worse
Aaron Wherry · CBC News · Posted: Jul 11, 2020 4:00 AM ET
News that a subsidiary of the WE Charity paid Trudeau's mother and brother for speaking engagements raises further questions about the government's decision to enlist WE to disburse the funds from that program — and the prime minister's apparent involvement in signing off on that decision.

It inflames doubts that were already being raised about the intent behind the government's decision to partner with WE.

But it also makes one wonder why the prime minister keeps putting himself in these situations.
WE insisted at first that "the charity" had "never paid an honorarium" to Margaret Trudeau, the former wife of Pierre Trudeau, who is known for her advocacy on the issue of mental health. In some cases, that statement now appears to be incorrect: the charity did pay Margaret Trudeau for some appearances, though WE now claims that was a paperwork error. But WE's original claim also elided over the fact that its for-profit arm, ME to WE, had paid the prime minister's mother.

For WE, it's impossible to justify that omission. For Trudeau, the newest facts make it much more difficult for him to explain why he went anywhere near this decision.
For whatever reason, the prime minister and his office seem to have a recurring problem of failing to check themselves. As a result, they have now repeatedly wrecked themselves.

Perhaps believing their motives are sound and their intentions are good — and that meaning well should transcend all potential problems — they have waltzed into a series of avoidable spectacles.

In each case, it seems as if someone (not least the prime minister himself) should have seen the trouble coming — that what this government lacks is someone willing to put their hand up and ask, "Wait, are we sure about this?" (In that respect, Trudeau's worst moments as prime minister might have something in common with his infamous decision to wear blackface in previous years — the lack of an internal or external voice counselling caution.)

Trudeau's life has played out at a rarified level, where your father can be a friend of the Aga Khan and your mother and your brother can be celebrities who get paid to speak. Someone from that world should be keenly aware of how vulnerable he is to the charge of being out-of-touch — should know how dangerous it is to leave the impression that the standards of mere mortals don't apply to him. And yet, more than once, he seems to have lost track of what is expected from a politician.
 
The whole thing is another attempt to manufacture a scandal.
Yes BUT it was rather 'sloppy" and displays a sense of entitlement I personally do not like. I am certainly Not going to Not vote for the Libs (the Tories have been no better and the NDP are spinning their wheels as usual) but they need to be far more careful about conflicts and potential conflicts and look at the 'optics' of what they are doing.
 
Its the same issue that got the Ontario Liberals in trouble.

They do dumb stuff get in trouble then the opposition is weak so they get a pass.

Then they feel they can do wrong and end up making more mistakes...Sooner or latter the dam bursts and way we always get a change in govt after 10 years.
 

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