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You know what would be great? More tradespeople to help tackle that backlog of housing requirements we have.

Also, no more McJobs. Kids used to get part-time jobs at McDonald's and Tim's. Now they run on international students. This is bad for wage growth for lower income workers. This bad for opportunity for our own young people. And it's exploitive of immigrants. I personally don't care if we end up with fewer locations to get a double-double. Time for these businesses to go back to paying enough and attracting locals. Or even automate and improve productivity.
I'm also a supporter of higher min wages, but frankly TFWs are willing to work harder. I am aware of a large employer that will be bringing in on the order of 100 TFWs. They are motivated and will likely replace 160-200 workers who are on probation for not meeting work expectations.
 
@kEiThZ is on point here. Its not just the private diploma mills; its the Seneca's, Centennial's, GBs of the world etc.

Putting aside the problems with the exploitative tuitions, just for a moment, even ignore, at your peril weakening academic standards for some programs that weren't brilliant to begin with....... but then to add that we help finance this mess through OSAP; we exacerbate a pre-existing housing crisis which affects both those students and the broader population; we allow schools to take in literally thousands of students (if not tens of thousands) without providing anywhere close to enough on-campus housing to make that work for the students or the broader society.......

And we're not getting, for the most part, high-wage, high-skill entrepreneurs in exchange, we're getting a structural underclass.

I'm 100% for foreign students in legitimate programs; and where sufficient on-campus housing is being provided; and those students aren't being wooed under false pretenses and don't face exorbitant housing/tuition costs that leave them needing to work full-time while supposedly trying to take their studies seriously.

There's an entirely legit version of this idea to be had; but it almost certainly involves cutting the numbers we're seeing now by at least 1/2, and it means cracking down on diploma mills, clamping down on Community Colleges; but also funding the latter properly so that they can provide quality programs for reasonable rates to both domestic and foreign students.
I have hired several student visa workers, but they all had bachelor degrees in engineering or similar. Most did their university education in Canada, some did supplementary 1 year college programs. These make sense to me. On the flip side, I know through friends/coworkers, many folks that are taking totally irrelevant remote study college programs and working as much as possible (recently expanded to unlimited/full time). Canada has always been a national of immigrants. If people come here looking to work and contribute to the community, I see no reason to make things unnecessarily difficult for them,
 
I have hired several student visa workers, but they all had bachelor degrees in engineering or similar. Most did their university education in Canada, some did supplementary 1 year college programs. These make sense to me. On the flip side, I know through friends/coworkers, many folks that are taking totally irrelevant remote study college programs and working as much as possible (recently expanded to unlimited/full time). Canada has always been a national of immigrants. If people come here looking to work and contribute to the community, I see no reason to make things unnecessarily difficult for them,

Providing that we're seeing good wage growth in the domestic economy, and in particular, in the positions people would be looking to fill as immigrants, I broadly agree. Though, we need sufficient housing or we risk impoverishing both existing residents and prospective ones.

At this moment, it is very clear that we physically cannot keep pace in terms of building housing vs demand growth. If we can't, then demand growth must be curtailed, at least temporarily until we catch up.
 
I'm not sure how to achieve this from a policy standpoint without unduly disallowing high value immigrants. Disqualify certain institutions for student visas? Only allow bachelor-level programs and higher to issue student visa?
 
I'm not sure how to achieve this from a policy standpoint without unduly disallowing high value immigrants. Disqualify certain institutions for student visas? Only allow bachelor-level programs and higher to issue student visa?

For TFWs, in theory, receiving businesses used to have to generate an LMO or Labour Market Opinion showing that there was a need that couldn't be met by domestic labour supply.

How about we start there w/foreign students in non-elite programs (elite programs are an entirely different issue).

If a college wants to take on 2,000 project manager students from outside Canada, they first need to show with an LMO that we need 2,000 more project managers, then that that cannot be reasonably generated through the domestic labour supply including through higher wages when considering prevailing global norms.

Second, the college in question should need to establish that the program it is offering, with the standards it is enforcing will meet that need; the initial requirement would look at the placement rate of its graduates in the profession described in the LMO within 12 months of graduation; and their retention rate 12 months after being hired.

Third, before we do any of that, we examine more broadly the problem of wage stagnation in Canada, particularly as compared to the United States, by also other OECD countries and resolve to address that issue and its impacts on Labour Force Participation Rates.

Fourth, we rescind the right of foreign students to work full-time while studying fulltime that's absurd. The Limit should be 16 hours per week during academic terms.

Fifth, we require that Colleges/Unis wishing to accept foreign students demonstrate that they have sufficient housing to place 100% of first-year intakes every year; we really ought to fund that, at least in part, as well.

Sixth, we ought to increase funding to Colleges and Unis (Ontario is now among the lowest in Canada on a per capita basis); to reduce their financial reliance on foreign students, and we should cap tuitions, both foreign and domestic.

For domestic students, all programs should be capped at a highly affordable rate; for foreign students, I think full cost recovery would a fair ask; but what we cannot do, and currently do is ask 25k per year for a program that costs less than 1/4 of that to deliver.

*****

I would take no issue w/leaving current top tier degree and graduate level programs relatively unrestricted, as for the most part these are higher value degrees with higher standards, however we still ought to make sure there is sufficient on-campus housing to match up w/those students, and we should still cap the tuition fee at something more reasonable than what we typically charge.

*****

On TFWs, I would impost a minimum annual salary, and peer-comparable salary rule (higher of the two); and make the LMO non-negotiably mandatory.

* Minimum annual pay would the median salary for all Canadians

* We would have to waive this for agriculture temporarily as we simply couldn't make it work, we're too reliant on low-cost migrant labour, but we should do something about that, and be kinder that very necessary workforce.
 
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I'm also a supporter of higher min wages, but frankly TFWs are willing to work harder. I am aware of a large employer that will be bringing in on the order of 100 TFWs. They are motivated and will likely replace 160-200 workers who are on probation for not meeting work expectations.
Maybe we shouldn't be happy about TFW working harder out of fear.
 
Maybe we shouldn't be happy about TFW working harder out of fear.
I would not say it is out of fear. There are cultural differences, and the pay means a lot more when it is a very good income for their home country. This is a job where the work expectations are very clear and well measured, and many long tenured employees are able to meet it without difficulty. Also well compensated for an unskilled industrial job
 
For TFWs, in theory, receiving businesses used to have to generate an LMO or Labour Market Opinion showing that there was a need that couldn't be met by domestic labour supply.

How about we start there w/foreign students in non-elite programs (elite programs are an entirely different issue).

If a college wants to take on 2,000 project manager students from outside Canada, they first need to show with an LMO that we need 2,000 more project managers, then that that cannot be reasonably generated through the domestic labour supply including through higher wages when considering prevailing global norms.

Second, the college in question should need to establish that the program it is offering, with the standards it is enforcing will meet that need; the initial requirement would look at the placement rate of its graduates in the profession described in the LMO within 12 months of graduation; and their retention rate 12 months after being hired.

Third, before we do any of that, we examine more broadly the problem of wage stagnation in Canada, particularly as compared to the United States, by also other OECD countries and resolve to address that issue and its impacts on Labour Force Participation Rates.

Fourth, we rescind the right of foreign students to work full-time while studying fulltime that's absurd. The Limit should be 16 hours per week during academic terms.

Fifth, we require that Colleges/Unis wishing to accept foreign students demonstrate that they have sufficient housing to place 100% of first-year intakes every year; we really ought to fund that, at least in part, as well.

Sixth, we ought to increase funding to Colleges and Unis (Ontario is now among the lowest in Canada on a per capita basis); to reduce their financial reliance on foreign students, and we should cap tuitions, both foreign and domestic.

For domestic students, all programs should be capped at a highly affordable rate; for foreign students, I think full cost recovery would a fair ask; but what we cannot do, and currently do is ask 25k per year for a program that costs less than 1/4 of that to deliver.

*****

I would take no issue w/leaving current top tier degree and graduate level programs relatively unrestricted, as for the most part these are higher value degrees with higher standards, however we still ought to make sure there is sufficient on-campus housing to match up w/those students, and we should still cap the tuition fee at something more reasonable than what we typically charge.

*****

On TFWs, I would impost a minimum annual salary, and peer-comparable salary rule (higher of the two); and make the LMO non-negotiably mandatory.

* Minimum annual pay would the median salary for all Canadians

* We would have to waive this for agriculture temporarily as we simply couldn't make it work, we're too reliant on low-cost migrant labour, but we should do something about that, and be kinder that very necessary workforce.
I think this strays a bit into lump of labour fallacy territory.
 
I think this strays a bit into lump of labour fallacy territory.

I entirely disagree. I think, with great respect, you've missed the key points I've made entirely.

The argument is not that more workers create less employment.

The argument, for which there is ample proof, is that they suppress wage growth and investments in productivity.

Given that Canada is a known laggard in both of those and has among the highest levels of non-PR labour in the developed world, we can establish correlative link without even getting into the research.

But there is also plenty of evidence of a causative link as well.

Further, growing the number of jobs or employed is not, to my mind, a legitimate goal, anymore than population growth or economic growth for their own sake. Both have externalities in respect of pollution, housing costs etc.

From a UK study (with much lower levels of TFWs)


1671835325039.png



****

A U.S. study from the '90s said this:

1671836291686.png


Borjas et al. ~1997!

Material from: https://gspp.berkeley.edu/assets/uploads/research/pdf/p51.pdf


Brookings also notes that the tight labour market in the U.S. recently is directly linked to the highest real wage growth in some years, particularly in lower-wage sectors:


We can also look at this paragraph:

1671836592472.png


Referencing as noted above a later Borjas study:

The link to the paragraph is here: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8612123/#R13

The link to the Borjas study is here: https://academic.oup.com/qje/article-abstract/118/4/1335/1925108
 
If think this is normal just ask recent migrants what's going on.


None of this is normal. And the policy of this government is responsible for this.

It needs to be said, the problems didn't start here (Trudeau); nor are they exclusive to the Federal gov't.

But certainly, policy under Trudeau has made these issues demonstrably worse.

I don't know exactly when one would draw the line for either level of government, I suspect it goes back to at least the mid 90s and the steep cutbacks of the Chretien Liberals and the Harris Conservatives.......but where exactly one would
draw a clear line of delineation I would need to spend more time studying.

But any which way, ever higher reliance for revenue on foreign students and a ponzi scheme housing market are something both levels of government have been furthering to the detriment of both said immigrants/students and to the nation as a whole. Its a terrible scheme that might simply be labelled Grift for the Grifters (or exploiters) as one might choose.
 
If think this is normal just ask recent migrants what's going on.


None of this is normal. And the policy of this government is responsible for this.
It’s often established immigrants exploiting new immigrants. The below title sounds racist AF, but the Indian writer gives us some insight why they may scam their own within the community in Canada.

 

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