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The main problem is the immigration policy. They are swamping any and all housing built and any other service expansion. Nothing can keep up with the growth they want. Just imagine what will happen to inflation next summer when all the international students arrive for the 2025 school year.

No question; we're on the same page here.

But what struck me was that they lacked even a fig leaf or a superficial token.

There seems to be a wilful desire to sink the federal Liberal ship at this point. Beyond mere good policy (or lack thereof) they seem to have lost any grasp of optics.
 
The only opposition party relevant to this discussion is the one propping up the government. And its leader won't qualify for his pension till Feb 2025. So we won't have an election before then.
It might also depend on the NDP warchest. They might be within range of Her Majesty's Loyal Opposition, but if they can't afford to put up a decent campaign, they could be back in third. The Liberals may be moribund, but they probably have deeper pockets and more backroom bench strength. Once the Writ is dropped, the short memories of most voters means a lot of previous bets go out the window.
 
No question; we're on the same page here.

But what struck me was that they lacked even a fig leaf or a superficial token.

There seems to be a wilful desire to sink the federal Liberal ship at this point. Beyond mere good policy (or lack thereof) they seem to have lost any grasp of optics.

I've been saying this for a few weeks now. No idea if the brain trust has lost it or it's the base. Or maybe they don't know how to govern when the economy isn't letting them run large deficits. But a whole bunch of promises made, including the signature $15B loan program for housing, will be deferred to 2025. They know they may not have to deliver. Looks like they are setting up to sandbag the CPC government. Smart politics. But terrible governance.

As a person in my early 40s, this is absolutely deplorable though. They have absolutely screwed the next generation. Housing is only half the story. They've destroyed the government's fiscal capacity.


I said this before. I supported them running the "small deficits" they ran on in 2015. But even before the pandemic they had already ran up > $100B in debt. The talking points changed from "small deficits" to "we can keep the deficits lower than economic growth". Of course, they ignored the warning that any recession would skyrocket debt ratios at the same time as deficits. Now they are on the precipice of exactly this. They should have raised taxes for all the social spending they wanted. Instead they deficit funded it all. Truly the party of Boomers.
 
It might also depend on the NDP warchest.

I really don't think it does. I don't think Singh is nearly that strategic. He's riding out till 2025 when his pension kicks in and he'll probably bow out after the election and go back to Ontario provincial politics. Heck, I think there's a risk he loses his own seat in 2025.

They might be within range of Her Majesty's Loyal Opposition, but if they can't afford to put up a decent campaign, they could be back in third.

Current polling has them risking a 4th place finish.
 
I really don't think it does. I don't think Singh is nearly that strategic. He's riding out till 2025 when his pension kicks in and he'll probably bow out after the election and go back to Ontario provincial politics. Heck, I think there's a risk he loses his own seat in 2025.

Except by those who are drinking the Kool-Aid Jagmeet really isn't liked by NDP Members as a whole. They would toss him in a second given the right opportunity.

Yes he got 81% at the leadership review but the only people who attend those conventions are party brass and those who drink the Kool-Aid. People who go to these conventions subscribe to the NDP mantra of support the leader, the leader is great and it is their duty as an NDP member to support him.

He likely knows he is toast after the next election and as you said wants to claim his pension.

I've been an NDP Member since 2006 and he was dead last on my ranked ballot.

Honestly, supporting the Liberals may hurt the NDP. It shows them as being the party who supported the liberals perceived failures.

If the NDP was smart they would do what Jack did and vote them out.

I knew Jack Layton, I worked with Jack Layton, (in Toronto-Danforth during elections), Jack Layton was a friend of mine. Jagmeet is no Jack Layton.

Many years ago, I had an hour long conversation with Jack during the Labour Day Parade and then had beers with the man.

Prior to that I worked closely with the riding during election campaigns in his riding.

The NDP needs to grow a pair.
 
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Except by those who are drinking the Kool-Aid Jagmeet really isn't liked by NDP Members as a whole. They would toss him in a second given the right opportunity.

Yes he got 81% at the leadership review but the only people who attend those conventions are party brass and those who drink the Kool-Aid. People who go to these conventions subscribe to the NDP mantra of support the leader, the leader is great and it is their duty as an NDP member to support him.

He likely knows he is toast after the next election and as you said wants to claim his pension.

I've been an NDP Member since 2006 and he was dead last on my ranked ballot.

Honestly, supporting the Liberals may hurt the NDP. It shows them as being the party who supported the liberals perceived failures.

If the NDP was smart they would do what Jack did and vote them out.

I knew Jack Layton, I worked with Jack Layton, (in Toronto-Danforth during elections), Jack Layton was a friend of mine. Jagmeet is no Jack Layton.

Many years ago, I had an hour long conversation with Jack during the Labour Day Parade and then had beers with the man.

Prior to that I worked closely with the riding during election campaigns in his riding.

The NDP needs to grow a pair.

The problem is, the NDP does not have any chance of winning the next election, and forcing the election now will just guarantee worse outcomes for the programs and groups they support. At least the libs usually give a small figleaf for NDP priorities. They really have nothing to gain by forcing the election.
 
The problem is, the NDP does not have any chance of winning the next election, and forcing the election now will just guarantee worse outcomes for the programs and groups they support. At least the libs usually give a small figleaf for NDP priorities. They really have nothing to gain by forcing the election.

That did not stop Jack.

He supported the CPC in their vote of non-confidence in exchange for concessions. The NDP also knew that the Liberals were corrupt and it was not in their best interest to support them.

Yes they did not win the election but it did help the NDP build their credibility as fighting for the average Canadian. Had Jack not died, there is a very good chance the NDP would have formed government.

The reason the NDP is now so lacklustre is because they changed their constitution after Jack died. They removed all mentions of socialism, focused less on activism, the environment and other issues that matter to Canadians. Now they just sit quietly on the sidelines propping up a government that is working against Canadians.

This is why I say that Jagmeet needs to go. He has lost touch and was never qualified to run the party.

As I said before, Jagmeet only won because he signed up a large number of supporters prior to the leadership election. Most of the supporters were International Students, Permanent Residents or other such people who could not vote anywhere but the leadership election.

The people he signed up were not eligible to vote in a general election so while he had the support to be leader, he did not have the support of the electorate.

What the NDP needs is an effective leader like Bob Rae who has the credentials and qualifications. Unfortunately for the Federal NDP they continue to elect the flavor of the week in the name of diversity and equality.

Diversity and equality be damned! Just because someone is Brown, LGBTQ, Female, First Nations or an Immigrant does make them qualified to be the head of a Federal Party. Whoever is leader, needs to be more than a figurehead, more than just someone who is nominated to be inclusive they need to have actual qualifications.

I will say this, I have no issues with Wab Kinew being leader of the Manitoba NDP, as that is a great starting point. If he does well there then I would have no issues with him becoming leader of the Federal NDP one day.
 
As I said before if the opposition parties were smart they would force a vote of non-confidence.

Now is the time, do it and the Liberals would be decimated.

I'm surprised to see the NDP above 20%

If they continue to poll in the 20-25% range, or even higher, then I expect they pull the plug. The NDP win their participation trophy (a handful of new seats), the Liberals tank, and Pierre is PM.
 
I'm surprised to see the NDP above 20% If they continue to poll in the 20-25% range, or even higher, then I expect they pull the plug.

If the NDP make it into second place, expect them to pull the plug.

Being the opposition in a majority government has it's benefits. You can toss the leader, elect a new one and build their credentials before the next election.
 
If the NDP make it into second place, expect them to pull the plug.

Being the opposition in a majority government has it's benefits. You can toss the leader, elect a new one and build their credentials before the next election.

It will take an Ignatieff or Wynne-level collapse for that to happen, which I'm not banking on. At least not yet.😬
 
That did not stop Jack.

He supported the CPC in their vote of non-confidence in exchange for concessions. The NDP also knew that the Liberals were corrupt and it was not in their best interest to support them.

Yes they did not win the election but it did help the NDP build their credibility as fighting for the average Canadian. Had Jack not died, there is a very good chance the NDP would have formed government.

The reason the NDP is now so lacklustre is because they changed their constitution after Jack died. They removed all mentions of socialism, focused less on activism, the environment and other issues that matter to Canadians. Now they just sit quietly on the sidelines propping up a government that is working against Canadians.

This is why I say that Jagmeet needs to go. He has lost touch and was never qualified to run the party.

As I said before, Jagmeet only won because he signed up a large number of supporters prior to the leadership election. Most of the supporters were International Students, Permanent Residents or other such people who could not vote anywhere but the leadership election.

The people he signed up were not eligible to vote in a general election so while he had the support to be leader, he did not have the support of the electorate.

What the NDP needs is an effective leader like Bob Rae who has the credentials and qualifications. Unfortunately for the Federal NDP they continue to elect the flavor of the week in the name of diversity and equality.

Diversity and equality be damned! Just because someone is Brown, LGBTQ, Female, First Nations or an Immigrant does make them qualified to be the head of a Federal Party. Whoever is leader, needs to be more than a figurehead, more than just someone who is nominated to be inclusive they need to have actual qualifications.

I will say this, I have no issues with Wab Kinew being leader of the Manitoba NDP, as that is a great starting point. If he does well there then I would have no issues with him becoming leader of the Federal NDP one day.

Oh I agree Jagmeet needs to go, he is no Jack, and the NDP has been pathetic, but even so, all options are pathetic, and in many cases worse. It would also be harder to get rid of Jagmeet if the NDP are second place. They would likely try him out for another election before turfing. Also, being 2nd place in one election doesn't mean anything for the one after that. Each election starts at 0. I remember getting a call from the NDP in Trudeau's first election, that they only needed a few seats to defeat the cons, but Justin needed so many more. Ridiculous. Being the official opposition has almost no benefits over having 1 MP in the HoC during a majority, except maybe for the CPAC watching crowd.

The NDP needs a leader, but, credentials and qualifications don't mean anything in todays politics. They need someone who can weave a narrative that a plurality of people will get excited about, and at least appear genuine (not even necessarily credible). Jack could do it, Jagmeet cannot.

Diversity and equality are actually important, and they do bring new Canadians into the political process, BUT, in hard times such as this, all communications and messaging should be on the economic factors, as that's what will bring in the most people regardless of background. We know from history that when people are struggling, they're looking for people to bring down instead of raising others up, and we shouldn't fall into that trap.
 

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