News   GLOBAL  |  Apr 02, 2020
 10K     0 
News   GLOBAL  |  Apr 01, 2020
 42K     0 
News   GLOBAL  |  Apr 01, 2020
 6K     0 

Status
Not open for further replies.
I worked in the restaurant industry for over a decade. I have served people from all over the world, i have encounter many many customers who can't speak English. Did i throw a menu at them and act like total dick for not speaking English? Nope! I helped them the best i could with a smile and friendly manner.

That's good. (seriously); but you live in downtown Toronto, not a small town on the outskirts.

I'm not giving anyone a free pass for being rude; but there is a difference between someone who encounters people of diverse backgrounds multiple times each day/shift, and someone for whom it is comparatively rare.

Inferring one experience, in one place, once a general sense of place is problematic.

I've been in small town Ontario, and here, I mean further north, very small ..........I'm Caucasian, straight etc. which is offered only to say, I'm not someone who you would think would stand out in such a place, but when watering in some local watering holes in such places, I've very much felt like the outsider getting a dirty look.

I might infer something negative about that specific establishment.........maybe even that village/town.......but extrapolating that to all of Ontario wouldn't be reasonable.

I helped a young gentleman at Pearson airport recently, he was looking for the taxi line, he couldn't speaking English. he used his phone. I guided him into the right direction. He gave me a fist pump and the thumbs up.

Again, that's great, I don't recall suggesting you were somehow terribly inhospitable.

Simply, one ought not to just condemn an entire region or province by one negative experience.

Surely you've experienced rude, or indifferent service in Toronto. Likely more than once, probably from both male and female servers, more than likely of differing ages and backgrounds.

From that would you infer that all wait staff in restaurants in Toronto are indifferent?

That doesn't accord to me as reasonable.

If the rest of Canada tried this, they'd be rightly called racists!


Ummmm


That's right.......paramedics in Hamilton were criminally convicted for their role in a young man's death by failing to provide the appropriate standard of service.

Whether or not racism was involved may be a matter of conjecture..........but it certainly didn't look good.

***

Again, the instance described above (in your link) was needless rude, no arguing that. But I don't think one can reasonably infer that that broadly reflects Quebecers anymore than one might infer those Hamilton paramedics are representative of all or most Ontarians.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: T3G
Yep. Which is too bad. The PM has helped closed the gap in the recent polls. Hopefully who ever the next Liberal leader is can continue. I have my doubts.


I think Trudeau got blamed for crap that wasn't necessarily his fault, the electorate had grown tired of him (a common occurrence after 9 years), and he's done some of his best work since January (with Trump). Indeed he seems to do well in times of conflict (with the possible exception of the Maple Maga Truck Convoys in Ottawa and out west). I still think he's correct to step down.

Edit typo and clarification of since trump
 
Most servers and retail employees were appreciative for us at least trying with our high school French.
my French is non-existent (despite 9 years of French class throughout grade school)
Good to know I'm not the only one with 9 years of grade school French (grade 4–12) that ended up mostly dormant & probably almost non-existent by now.
 
Last edited:
Cool. Be sure to tell 'em that next time they wanna separate (Quebexit). FWIW I wouldn't care if they ever do choose to separate from Canada, or even join the US as the 51st state, like you said it doesn't affect me at all.

I said federal laws on bilingual service don't impact you. But you can bet if Quebec left that would impact you a lot more than French on the back of cereal boxes and chips packets.
 
I worked in the restaurant industry for over a decade. I have served people from all over the world, i have encounter many many customers who can't speak English. Did i throw a menu at them and act like total dick for not speaking English? Nope! I helped them the best i could with a smile and friendly manner.
Are you saying that no server has ever been rude to a customer for petty reasons outside of Quebec? Not sure I believe you worked in customer service at all if thats the case.
 
Bro.. deep breathe.

Let it go.
What is it with this forum and non mods acting like they're mods?

If you feel the discussion is inappropriate, that is what we have a report button for. Telling someone in the midst of a discussion to let it go is hardly a strategy to garner favour - in fact, it is patently absurd.
 
What is it with this forum and non mods acting like they're mods?

If you feel the discussion is inappropriate, that is what we have a report button for. Telling someone in the midst of a discussion to let it go is hardly a strategy to garner favour - in fact, it is patently absurd.

While I'll admit that I'm likely the cause of the mods stress, drinking problems and the like.. it is a natural reaction.
 
I said federal laws on bilingual service don't impact you. But you can bet if Quebec left that would impact you a lot more than French on the back of cereal boxes and chips packets.
As long as there's English on the back of cereal boxes & chips bags in QC, I'm content.
 
As long as there's English on the back of cereal boxes & chips bags in QC, I'm content.

Your whining on here doesn't seem to line up with this post. Or were you ignorant to the fact that cereal boxes and chips packets have English on the back in Quebec (cause again, you don't know how the markets work and what is under federal and provincial jurisdiction)?
 
Your whining on here doesn't seem to line up with this post. Or were you ignorant to the fact that cereal boxes and chips packets have English on the back in Quebec (cause again, you don't know how the markets work and what is under federal and provincial jurisdiction)?
tldr: the extent to which French is(n't) used in a place like Toronto should match the extent to which English is(n't) used in QC. I was always under the impression this was not the case, and if that impression is false, good for them.

So the reason TTC announcements are exclusively in English and STM announcements are exclusively in French (with rare exceptions, i.e. in emergencies), while GO announcements are bilingual, is because the former are local transit systems while GO is a federally regulated railroad despite providing regional service centered around the GTA (never been on Exo rail so idk if it's also bilingual)?
 
tldr: the extent to which French is(n't) used in a place like Toronto should match the extent to which English is(n't) used in QC. I was always under the impression this was not the case, and if that impression is false, good for them.

So the reason TTC announcements are exclusively in English and STM announcements are exclusively in French (with rare exceptions, i.e. in emergencies), while GO announcements are bilingual, is because the former are local transit systems while GO is a federally regulated railroad despite providing regional service centered around the GTA (never been on Exo rail so idk if it's also bilingual)?
GO Transit/Metrolinx is not federally regulated, it is an agency of the Ontario Government. It is required to operate in compliance with federal regulations while operating on federally regulated properties (CN/CPKC). GO bilingual announcements are a result of the French Language Service Act (RSO) and Toronto (and other GTA municipalities) is a designated area within the Schedule of that Act. The TTC is under no similar obligation; although they could if they so chose.

Good to know I'm not the only one with 9 years of grade school French (grade 4–12) that ended up mostly dormant & probably almost non-existent by now.
I only took it in Jr. High and High School and it was pretty much a disaster (consistent with a lot of my formal education). They might have better luck if their efforts were to make me conversant in French rather than a linguistic scholar (they were trying to teach grammar rules that they weren't even teaching in English). Couple that with a teen seeing absolutely no use for it, which was pretty much the norm in 1960s and 70s Toronto.

Like anything else, if you don't exercise it, you'll lose whatever fragments you absorb. Our daughter is quite bilingual because she grew up in an area with a French-speaking population and continues to live in another (besides, she's really smart). I worked with a guy who had no formal French education but boarded with a bilingual family in NE Ontario when he started his career and became functionally bilingual.
 
Québec City is about 95% French according to the 2016 census. Rudeness is regrettable, but people there just cannot be expected to be bilingual outside of very touristy area for the simple reason that most of them will never need to use English, just like few people in Toronto ever need to use French - being a translator I'm one of those few!

Once I was with my American husband at Brasserie Bofinger in Paris. The waiter heard us and guessed accurately that I was French-speaking and my husband English-speaking, so he brought him an English menu - he refused, and insisted on ordering in French (with a little help from me), and the waiter was surprised and very appreciative - during my visits there I have heard many more Americans be rude to the French than the opposite.

Anyone visiting Québec outside of Montréal and perhaps the Eastern Townships and Sherbrooke should expect that some of the people they meet won't speak English or be able to provide them with information in English.
 
As long as there's English on the back of cereal boxes & chips bags in QC, I'm content.
Again. Remove Quebec from Canada and you will still have french and english on packaging. This isn't that hard to understand.
 
@lenaitch is entirely correct on the GO/TTC issue............

But I think its worth noting that the TTC, on signage, likely will be going bilingual. The reason, however, is not Federal or Provincial regulation that directly applies to them, but rather its indirect impact.

That is to say, because Mx operates under the French Services Act, the Crosstown, Finch, and .later the Ontario Line will all be compliant with the French Services Act, and the TTC is concerned (amazingly, LOL) that will mean two different styles and use of French depending on which line you're on.

I expect the vast majority of compliance will be, as it is on GO, the use of symbols/iconography, rather than extensive use of French, but I imagine you'll see the odd word like Sortie crop up here and there.

I haven't heard anything about the idea of making announcements bilingual, which I expect, as with GO, would only apply to pre-recorded ones anyway.
 
Last edited:
Anyone visiting Québec outside of Montréal and perhaps the Eastern Townships and Sherbrooke should expect that some of the people they meet won't speak English or be able to provide them with information in English.

This is true in every country where English is not the predominant language. It's an odd form of cultural imperialism for Anglos to travel to such territory and get upset that they're not being spoken to in English.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Back
Top