[kEiThZ]

^ A lot of us who are Indo-Canadian have noticed exactly what that guy did and have called it out. Then we get accused of racism.

For a lot of Indo Canadians who aren't Punjabi, Brampton is actually kind of uncomfortable. I can see it becoming something akin to a terrible Paris banlieue.

The LPC are going to be really surprised by the backlash from first generation immigrants at the next election. Many know exactly what is going on. And are upset the government doesn't care.

 

[W. K. Lis]

This is like saying the Ontario Health Premium is insurance. If it's not optional, it's a tax. That's not to say it's bad. It's just a statement of fact.

I guess that in the United States of America, their health insurance premiums are a "tax" then. With pre-existing conditions.

 

[Northern Light]

Lately I’ve been viewing Canada as this naive teenager who doesn’t understand nation building and thinks that everything will sort itself out.

We have have resources but we are also stupid to sell off all our state owned piggy banks that could’ve exploited the resources. Eg. Oil. We could’ve had large sovereign wealth funds like some Nordic nations. But no.

The basic concepts of state building is lacklustre. Heck we can’t even bring in the right immigrants to fulfil industry needs. We bring in students but not the skilled economical immigrants that we need to exploit our resources.

Take this as a grain of salt as it comes from Reddit:

Could you provide the link for this on Reddit please? I'd like to be able to share that w/others.

 

[lenaitch]

Lately I’ve been viewing Canada as this naive teenager who doesn’t understand nation building and thinks that everything will sort itself out.

We have have resources but we are also stupid to sell off all our state owned piggy banks that could’ve exploited the resources. Eg. Oil. We could’ve had large sovereign wealth funds like some Nordic nations. But no.

The basic concepts of state building is lacklustre. Heck we can’t even bring in the right immigrants to fulfil industry needs. We bring in students but not the skilled economical immigrants that we need to exploit our resources.

Take this as a grain of salt as it comes from Reddit:

One problem is natural resources are primarily a provincial mandate under our Constitution (the feds have a primary role in off-shore, FNs, inter-provincial, transportation, the territories and a few other areas). Alberta has the Alberta Heritage Fund but it nowhere near the value of other national funds and I think they stopped contributing to it several years ago. BC has or is thinking of one and Quebec has a Hydro Quebec-based one. Some proponents argue for the federal government take a lead in consolidating them into a single federal fund but we can all imagine how well that would go over.

 

[yrt+viva=1system]

Could you provide the link for this on Reddit please? I'd like to be able to share that w/others.

Here you go:

https://www.reddit.com/r/canada/comments/14s97xa

 

[kEiThZ]

I guess that in the United States of America, their health insurance premiums are a "tax" then. With pre-existing conditions.

In the US, health insurance premiums are optional. You can go uncovered. So not a tax.

It's not that I disagree with taxes. I'm a proponent of higher taxes even. But I don't think a lot of liberals understand how bad the word games they play come off. It looks deceptive. Just be honest about it. We need these taxes to pay for our health system and unemployment supports. Nothing wrong with that.

 

[Admiral Beez]

I feel like no one is really commenting on how housing affordability in particular is negatively impacting fertility rate. People start having families later and have fewer children when it is so hard to afford a home.

That should be quite the family debate. “We want grandchildren! Well mom and dad, just how much do you want them? Let me show you this condo brochure.”

I‘m not sure housing affordability is impacting fertility. Millions of people have many kids they can’t afford to house or fed and yet keep pumping them out. What’s impacting fertility is that women now are empowered, financially independent, more educated (vs. their male counterparts), focused on careers, friendships, experiences and enjoyment of life. This is why Canada’s immigration plan will fail, since as soon as the female children of new immigrants become empowered adults they won’t be mirroring their own mother’s high fertility.

 

[kEiThZ]

That should be quite the family debate. “We want grandchildren! Well mom and dad, just how much do you want them? Let me show you this condo brochure.”

I‘m not sure housing affordability is impacting fertility. Millions of people have many kids they can’t afford to house or fed and yet keep pumping them out. What’s impacting fertility is that women now are empowered, financially independent, more educated (vs. their male counterparts), focused on careers, friendships, experiences and enjoyment of life. This is why Canada’s immigration plan will fail, since as soon as the female children of new immigrants become empowered adults they won’t be mirroring their own mother’s high fertility.

How old are your kids? If they are old enough to give you grandkids, they will tell you exactly what @afransen and I are telling you here.

It's not women's "empowerment stopping people from having kids. It's gross that this has to be pointed out. Don't you have a daughter? I'm sure you hope for her to be more fulfilled than just being compelled into being a baby machine by culture.

It's the cost of raising kids. And the biggest cost of raising a kid is housing. The marginal cost of one child is the cost of going from a 1 bedroom to a 2 bedroom condo. The marginal cost of the second child is the cost of going from a 2 bedroom condo to a 3 bedroom townhouse. Go look at prices and work out what that means for increases in monthly payments on mortgages and you'll quickly figure out why people are not having more kids.

Policies like subsidized childcare are window dressing. It's great that the government capped costs.... For those who can get a spot. I've been on the waiting list for after school care for 2 years. And I'm willing to pay.

See above the anecdote I gave where a Eastern European friend compared having a kid in Canada to owning a Ferrari. I can't say he was wrong. The Ferrari is probably cheaper than the second or third bedroom in most of this country.

 

[Admiral Beez]

It's the cost of raising kids. And the biggest cost of raising a kid is housing.

In developing or poverty-ridden countries (where most of Canada‘s immigrants now come from) women have many children no matter if they can afford to house or feed them, because women in these countries have no power over their own fertility and lives. Look at countries with strong social welfare systems and empowered women, like the Scandinavian countries, where fertility rates are dramatically lower than in developing countries. Housing cost in Canada will also impact fertility rates as you suggest, but there’s a lot more at play. In Norway, for example cost of housing is there, but not top of list. Perhaps housing is more affordable?

 

[Richard White]

That should be quite the family debate. “We want grandchildren! Well mom and dad, just how much do you want them? Let me show you this condo brochure.”

I‘m not sure housing affordability is impacting fertility. Millions of people have many kids they can’t afford to house or fed and yet keep pumping them out. What’s impacting fertility is that women now are empowered, financially independent, more educated (vs. their male counterparts), focused on careers, friendships, experiences and enjoyment of life. This is why Canada’s immigration plan will fail, since as soon as the female children of new immigrants become empowered adults they won’t be mirroring their own mother’s high fertility.

There may be some truth to this Admiral.

As you may or may not know, I used to do Condominium Security for 12 years. In that time, I saw plenty of people holding off having kids because it was too expensive in Toronto. I know one couple who got married and moved outside Toronto where it was cheaper to start a family.

The couple that moved out of Toronto, one was the daughter of an Indian immigrant to Canada.

Simply put, they had to choose between high rents or having kids. They could not afford to survive in Toronto on their own let alone with a family.

 

[Richard White]

See above the anecdote I gave where a Eastern European friend compared having a kid in Canada to owning a Ferrari. I can't say he was wrong. The Ferrari is probably cheaper than the second or third bedroom in most of this country.

In Hungary their cost of living was so out of whack the Orban Government actually issued tax breaks to women who had multiple children. I believe it was after 4 children the mother did not have to pay any income taxes.

They also gave them financial incentives for having children.

 

[Admiral Beez]

There may be some truth to this Admiral. I know one couple who got married and moved outside Toronto where it was cheaper to start a family.

I agree that housing cost is a factor, I'm just not sure it's the top one. The couple you mention were smart, there's no way as a young adult today I would stay in the GTA. I expect the only way either of my early 20s kids will stay in the GTA after university is if we help them buy a home - which we will do, but I don't expect it to encourage them to have kids.... it would be great, but we're good either way.

In Hungary their cost of living was so out of whack the Orban Government actually issued tax breaks to women who had multiple children.

Did it work? Trudeau won't do what's necessary to reduce housing costs, namely significant reduction in foreign student visas and reducing immigration, while reducing interest rates, enacting federally-funded building incentives and partnering with provinces to encourage more housing, but he can do tax breaks for multiple children.

 

[kEiThZ]

In developing or poverty-ridden countries (where most of Canada‘s immigrants now come from) women have many children no matter if they can afford to house or feed them, because women in these countries have no power over their own fertility and lives. Look at countries with strong social welfare systems and empowered women, like the Scandinavian countries, where fertility rates are dramatically lower than in developing countries. Housing cost in Canada will also impact fertility rates as you suggest, but there’s a lot more at play. In Norway, for example cost of housing is there, but not top of list. Perhaps housing is more affordable?

This is still all economic. There's a direct correlation between development and fertility rates. And it isn't so much because women are empowered. It's because they stay in school longer and need to work to support their families. This leaves less time for child bearing and rearing.

Also, the Scandinavian countries focus on equity with services and tax rates. But that doesn't make them cheap places to live at all. They are rather unaffordable and have many of the issues we have.

Closer to home the province with the highest birth rate is Quebec. Still not at replacement. But a lot closer than the rest. This isn't just a result of having better services. It's also because they have a much better housing mix that makes scaling housing with family size much easier. Simply put, it's much easier to get a second or third bedroom in Quebec relative to the rest of Canada. And it's easier to afford a child's needs (beyond housing) thanks to public programs like universal childcare.

In Hungary their cost of living was so out of whack the Orban Government actually issued tax breaks to women who had multiple children. I believe it was after 4 children the mother did not have to pay any income taxes.

They also gave them financial incentives for having children.

4 children is way too high, to make that work. Economic supports like this need to overcome the specific step changes in marginal costs between kids. Somebody who has 3 kids likely has the space and resources to have a fourth. The real problem are the couples who never have any or just have one. This policy sounds to me like a tax break to reward conservatives who have multiple kids. And Hungary's fertility rate is still only a touch better than Canada. Hardly anything worth serious study.

 

[afransen]

That should be quite the family debate. “We want grandchildren! Well mom and dad, just how much do you want them? Let me show you this condo brochure.”

I‘m not sure housing affordability is impacting fertility. Millions of people have many kids they can’t afford to house or fed and yet keep pumping them out. What’s impacting fertility is that women now are empowered, financially independent, more educated (vs. their male counterparts), focused on careers, friendships, experiences and enjoyment of life. This is why Canada’s immigration plan will fail, since as soon as the female children of new immigrants become empowered adults they won’t be mirroring their own mother’s high fertility.

Sure, there may be the those minimum wage earners that has three children by different fathers, but for middle class people, there is incredible pressure to provide a certain standard of living to their children, even beyond what I experienced as a child. This includes a high degree of after-school programming, trips, gadgets, post-secondary education etc. People choose to have fewer kids than that to have more kids and feel like they are bad parents for not being able to provide their children with what their peers are able to.

 

[yrt+viva=1system]

Millennials nearly twice as likely to vote for Conservatives over Liberals, new survey suggests​

https://www.thestar.com/news/canada...cle_7875f9b4-c818-547e-bf68-0f443ba321dc.html

Canadian millennials are nearly twice as likely to vote for Pierre Poilievre’s Conservatives than Prime Minister Justin Trudeau’s governing Liberals, according to new polling from Abacus Data.
The new survey of more than 2,000 adults, published last Thursday, also suggests the Liberals would fall to third-party status if an election was held today among Canada’s two youngest generation of voters.
The Tories are polling at 40 per cent among Canadian millennials, ahead of the NDP at 24 per cent and the Liberals at 21 per cent. Among the younger Gen Z cohort, the Conservatives also hold a strong lead at 32 per cent, six percentage points up over the NDP and eight percentage points ahead of the Liberals.

Roughly 54 per cent of Gen Z Canadians and 51 per cent of millennials say housing affordability and accessibility is one of their top three issues, more so than any other cohort of Canadians, according to the new Abacus Data survey.
In contrast, health care is of greater concern among older Canadians than younger ones. Some 42 per cent of Gen X Canadians and 57 per cent of Boomers, respectively, rank health care as one of their top three issues, compared to 29 per cent of Gen Z voters and 36 per cent of millennials.

I wonder if the Liberals can see past their sunny ways and pitchers of Kool Aid that there's a lot of anger amongst the younger voting base considering their future is being robbed before their eyes.