denfromoakvillemilton
Senior Member
Return to the pre 1998 state of Toronto. Reinstate Metro Toronto. Have six separate Municipalities with their own fire departments.
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- Thread starter Midtown Urbanist
- Start date
Return to the pre 1998 state of Toronto. Reinstate Metro Toronto. Have six separate Municipalities with their own fire departments.
freshcutgrass
Senior Member
Except Metro was hardly de-amalgamated. By the time 1998 rolled around, the Upper Tier accounted for about 3/4 of city resources. And the Lower Tiers were never "separate" to begin with.
denfromoakvillemilton
Senior Member
Okay, then return to that, what you said.
King of Kensington
Senior Member
I agree with the call for a two-tier Metro but York and East York shouldn't be recreated and really should be part of the city proper. They're pretty indistinguishable from the Old City for the most part.
In fact York and East York requested to join the city in 1930 - and were turned down.
In fact York and East York requested to join the city in 1930 - and were turned down.
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King of Kensington
Senior Member
Another possibility is to have a City of Toronto with an elected mayor and a system of 4 boroughs (Toronto, North York, Scarborough and Etobicoke) with their own budgets and some local powers.
I was very much against deamalgamation but it's pretty hard to put toothpaste back in the toothpaste tube. I would also maintain that the Ottawa-Carleton and Hamilton-Wentworth forced mergers were worse as they included a lot of exurban territory. The Toronto equivalent would be making all of the former York County one city!
I was very much against deamalgamation but it's pretty hard to put toothpaste back in the toothpaste tube. I would also maintain that the Ottawa-Carleton and Hamilton-Wentworth forced mergers were worse as they included a lot of exurban territory. The Toronto equivalent would be making all of the former York County one city!
freshcutgrass
Senior Member
Except Metro was the "city proper". The lower tiers were just quasi-autonomous entities of the "City".
Totally agree.
You could argue that Metro had pretty much amalgamated itself by 1998, where it was dominated by the Upper Tier. You could certainly justify amalgamation. But the Harris government wasn't interested in what was best for the municipalities...it was just running rough shod over the province and many municipalities got screwed in the process.
King of Kensington
Senior Member
City proper, the inner city, the central borough...don't really care what you call it.
freshcutgrass
Senior Member
The circa 1953 Toronto then? (which did not include Forest Hill or Swansea)
That's the thing, this "real Toronto" you seek of has been a pretty fluid place geographically.
King of Kensington
Senior Member
All I said is York/East York should be part of the same "borough" as the Old City of Toronto.
Midtown Urbanist
Superstar
Watching this Rick Mercer report: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfdoLedAWWg&feature=share got me thinking about de-amalgamation again.
What are the pros/cons of splitting Toronto from Scarborough and Etobicoke? Something like gweed123's map last page. I'm more hesitant about North York as I feel North York is more integrated into Toronto and provides more for the city than the other two.
What are the pros/cons of splitting Toronto from Scarborough and Etobicoke? Something like gweed123's map last page. I'm more hesitant about North York as I feel North York is more integrated into Toronto and provides more for the city than the other two.
nfitz
Superstar
Forget deamalgamation.
Could we just do something simple, and give Etobicoke to Mississauga? I'm sure they'd be very happy together.
Could we just do something simple, and give Etobicoke to Mississauga? I'm sure they'd be very happy together.
Johnny Au
Senior Member
Should Mississauga split from Peel Region?
freshcutgrass
Senior Member
The 905 Regions have weak upper tiers, so comparing it to the former Metro is apples-oranges.
There's a good argument for it, as Peel contains large quantities of rural/farm land. If anything, Peel should spin off Caledon.
Johnny Au
Senior Member
... and have Dufferin County take over Caledon. Mississauga and Brampton can merge to become Peel City.
King of Kensington
Senior Member
A lot of people I talk to who live or grew up in North York, Scarborough and Etobicoke take issue with the idea of being "not really Toronto" and say that basically it's akin to saying that Queens and Staten Island are "not really NYC."
Certainly amalgamation was horrible but some reforms needed to be made. There should be an executive elected 416-wide, the Metro Chair was an unelected super-mayor. And they should have gone with Goldenberg's recommendation for 4 municipalities. I don't think we can undo amalgamation and saying "the city should pull out" does not bring us back to 1997.
So I would suggest 4 boroughs with borough council budgets for areas such as parks, community centres and commercial streetscapes (this is a plank from Joe Pantalone's campaign), and perhaps elected borough presidents or councillors-at-large for each borough.
Certainly amalgamation was horrible but some reforms needed to be made. There should be an executive elected 416-wide, the Metro Chair was an unelected super-mayor. And they should have gone with Goldenberg's recommendation for 4 municipalities. I don't think we can undo amalgamation and saying "the city should pull out" does not bring us back to 1997.
So I would suggest 4 boroughs with borough council budgets for areas such as parks, community centres and commercial streetscapes (this is a plank from Joe Pantalone's campaign), and perhaps elected borough presidents or councillors-at-large for each borough.