[SunriseChampion]

Stop with the nonsense. A lot of people voted PC not because they liked Doug Ford, but because they didn't want the Liberals in power. I know that if Christine had become leader, she wouldn't be using her position as Premier to enact revenge on her enemies.

She'd probably still be a dick to drug addicts and the mentally unwell. So.....you sure?

 

[steveintoronto]

I only learned about the notwithstanding clause in 3rd year of university, and my degree was in political science.

So....

Tell me this is sarcasm....

Fake News.

Bruce Anderson is a Conservative. Edit for clarification. He *was*:

Bruce Anderson - The Globe and Mail

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/authors/bruce-anderson/Bruce Anderson. Bruce Anderson is the chairman of polling firm Abacus Data, a regular member of the At Issue panel on CBC's The National and a founding partner of i2 Ideas and Issues Advertising. He has done polls for Liberal and Conservative politicians but no longer does any partisan work.

His brother is still an active Con.

When I was reporting on politics in the mid-1990s, three different Anderson brothers worked for different parties. Rick Anderson was chief adviser to Reform Party leader Preston Manning; Bruce Anderson was a senior adviser to Manning’s rival, Progressive Conservative leader Jean Charest; and Jim Anderson, their younger brother, was a loyal Liberal.

https://www.thestar.com/news/insight/2014/10/03/politics_a_death_in_the_ottawa_family.html

Europe, Asia, and the rest of the world is going for renewable energy.

The Financial Times has been running specials for years on how the 'break-even point' for alternative energy has been reached and now surpassed the cost of 'fossil' (in more ways than one) fuel.

Renewable energy | Financial Times

https://www.ft.com/stream/29e9fad1-14fc-480b-a89c-cd964750bd80
The US state's pledges on electricity and emissions, $80 oil, Saudi solar and the Coal Dust Run. Save ... Special Report FT Guide: The Energy Transition.

Videos

1:35
FT Guide: the energy transition

Financial Times - Jun 14, 2018

1:56
Renewable energy boosted by subsidy fall

Financial Times - Sep 11, 2017

3:26
Planet first: entrepreneurs tackling environmental challenges

FT Guide: The Energy Transition | Financial Times

https://www.ft.com/reports/energy-transition-guide
Supply constraints drive interest in alternatives to current lithium-ion ... More from this Special Report ... FT readers say carbon pricing is key to energy debate.

California's renewable energy revolution - Financial Times

https://ig.ft.com/special-reports/renewable-energy/
California is turning to solar power and innovative ways of using energy to fight the droughts, floods and fires which climate change worsens.

Winds of change blow through renewable energy market | Financial ...

https://www.ft.com/content/b4a4f0ae-e597-11e7-97e2-916d4fbac0da
Dec 30, 2017 - Europe's renewable energy industry is used to breaking records for generating more power from low carbon sources. Yet two recent milestones ...
[...etc, etc. etc...]

I think the wisest plan for Ontario would have been to team up with Quebec and get all that energy from Hydro Electric Dams.

With what transmission capacity?

I can generally support this, though the process of interchanging power between Quebec's grid and our own is a tad more complex than a change with a snap of a finger.

There's the DC to AC conversion conundrum, let alone very limited xmssn capacity.

If only people would do some reading...but then they wouldn't vote Con, would they?

 

[lenaitch]

I only learned about the notwithstanding clause in 3rd year of university, and my degree was in political science.

So....

That's sad. I can't honestly remember what I learned in school as it was sooooo long ago but there's the whole personal and civic responsibility angle that we need to inform ourselves. Another forum I haunt is populated primarily by US users and has an 'off topic' page that inevitably migrates to US politics. Notwithstanding all of the issues they have down there, particularly their rabid partisanship, the one thing I will give them is they are very well informed and versed in their political and government structure and systems.

Tell me this is sarcasm....

Bruce Anderson is a Conservative. Edit for clarification. He *was*:

His brother is still an active Con.
The Financial Times has been running specials for years on how the 'break-even point' for alternative energy has been reached and now surpassed the cost of 'fossil' (in more ways than one) fuel.


With what transmission capacity?

There's the DC to AC conversion conundrum, let alone very limited xmssn capacity.

If only people would do some reading...but then they wouldn't vote Con, would they?

Agree that we would have to spend big money to upgrade the inter-provincial connections; how that balances against upgrading our nuclear plants I do not know. Some but not all of Quebec's long distance transmission lines are DC and I believe all of Manitoba's are. It will not be as simple as negotiating a price and flipping a switch. It also turns us into a permanent customer, which has its downsides.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

I think the wisest plan for Ontario would have been to team up with Quebec and get all that energy from Hydro Electric Dams.

Would been cheap clean energy forever.

Quebec isn't all that interested in selling energy to Ontario, relative to the US/New England.

AoD

 

[BurlOak]

Except for that not being true.

Yes there was some very expensive renewable energy, but the amounts of it were very small in relative terms.

Was it a a factor in higher prices, sure, but only a modest one.

There have been massive investments in Pickering Nuclear and in Hydro One distribution lines that had to be covered.

The gas plants issue, primarily because of cancellation, and compensation was also quite expensive, much more so than the renewable file.

That was an off-set cost for getting rid of coal; but it could have been less than 1/2 as costly as it was.

Its just silly to equate years of increases for electricity w/one small portion of that cost increase.

I believe the number from the Auditor General was $9B wasted on top of what green energy should have cost (compared to other jurisdictions) and $37B compared to Gas - which actually does most of our work for the peak demand and was built anyway because the green stuff is not reliable when we need it.

 

[adma]

Fake News.

I'm just waiting for DoFo himself to make such a claim, that the pollsters are "biased", etc etc...

 

[Videodrome]

https://toronto.citynews.ca/video/2...oned-about-96-councillors-in-leeds-grenville/

Wow, get this guy off TV for a while. He just destroyed all reasoning for cutting the size of Toronto council, while his riding has 96 councillors and 10 mayors.

 

[steveintoronto]

Some but not all of Quebec's long distance transmission lines are DC and I believe all of Manitoba's are. It will not be as simple as negotiating a price and flipping a switch. It also turns us into a permanent customer, which has its downsides.

Long term commitment is something I hadn't thought of, but a very important one, like building a superhighway to a city not yet built. I was too busy thinking of the technical challenges. Just reading up on (I guess the term UHV is now redundant) HVDC and HVAC interconnections, and line phase always fascinates me, I'm an electronic tech, not electrical, and I presumed the DC was xmtted in ripple form, perhaps not, so *synchronizing phase* becomes a very real challenge. I'd presumed injecting a control signal into the switching control banks like is used for solar panels to an inverter would establish that, evidently not that simple:

AC network interconnections
AC transmission lines can interconnect only synchronized AC networks with the same frequency with limits on the allowable phase difference between the two ends of the line. Many areas that wish to share power have unsynchronized networks. The power grids of the UK, Northern Europe and continental Europe are not united into a single synchronized network. Japan has 50 Hz and 60 Hz networks. Continental North America, while operating at 60 Hz throughout, is divided into regions which are unsynchronized: East, West, Texas, Quebec, and Alaska. Braziland Paraguay, which share the enormous Itaipu Dam hydroelectric plant, operate on 60 Hz and 50 Hz respectively. However, HVDC systems make it possible to interconnect unsynchronized AC networks, and also add the possibility of controlling AC voltage and reactive power flow.

A generator connected to a long AC transmission line may become unstable and fall out of synchronization with a distant AC power system. An HVDC transmission link may make it economically feasible to use remote generation sites. Wind farms located off-shore may use HVDC systems to collect power from multiple unsynchronized generators for transmission to the shore by an underwater cable.[48]

In general, however, an HVDC power line will interconnect two AC regions of the power-distribution grid. Machinery to convert between AC and DC power adds a considerable cost in power transmission. The conversion from AC to DC is known as rectification, and from DC to AC as inversion. Above a certain break-even distance (about 50 km for submarine cables, and perhaps 600–800 km for overhead cables), the lower cost of the HVDC electrical conductors outweighs the cost of the electronics.

The conversion electronics also present an opportunity to effectively manage the power grid by means of controlling the magnitude and direction of power flow. An additional advantage of the existence of HVDC links, therefore, is potential increased stability in the transmission grid.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-voltage_direct_current#AC_network_interconnections

Some of this I knew, some I didn't. Now reading back some of the chapters. Incredibly well written Wikipedia piece, it must be from an engineering manual. And I see a lot of my questions being answered.

From what I gather from a quick glance, the only sane way to xmt pwr from PQ to Ont is HVDC. And the investment would be huge. Why have I spent so much forum space on this?

Because this subject if going to come up time and again, and be recklessly based on complete misinformation.

Wow, get this guy off TV for a while. He just destroyed all reasoning for cutting the size of Toronto council, while his riding has 96 councillors and 10 mayors.

Incredible! I just sent that link off to friends and associates. Cynthia Mulligan has impressed me many times. She's far more than just eye candy.

Addendum to @lenaitch especially, you have the capacity to appreciate this:

AC transmission lines can interconnect only synchronized AC networks with the same frequency with limits on the allowable phase difference between the two ends of the line. Many areas that wish to share power have unsynchronized networks.

Off topic, but remember the "disappearing energy" in the Southern European network last year, such that "clocks were running slow" (synchronous, of course)?

I still don't believe the story being touted for it, won't go into the technical details, but suffice to say generators would be programmed to disconnect if line freq was more than a few radians late or early:
European clocks lose six minutes after dispute saps power from

I don't believe it! Traced the story, Deutsche Welle and many other reputable popular sources and some universities and even science sites were in on the story. I'm sure there is a real story, just not this one...

 

[Hopkins123]

I'm just waiting for DoFo himself to make such a claim, that the pollsters are "biased", etc etc...

It's just one poll. If internet-based polls were credited as a factual census of the population, the numbers would probably show a very different story.

 

[PinkLucy]

Hey, not so long ago Doug was waving a Toronto Sun poll around ...

 

[Hopkins123]

What does that even mean?

Like, this isn't some flat-earther trying to tell us about how the latest breakthroughs in geometry and physics prove their stupid theory, you know. That would be "fake news".

Are you of the belief that buck-a-beer (for, what, two brands of beer) has actually made Doug Ford so popular that the numbers must, in fact, be wrongly attributed to each opinion of him?

Conservative support typically gets under-sampled and liberal support (Liberals/NDP/Greens) over-sampled in official polls though. I had many people on here ridicule me up to 72 hours before the election for daring to state the obvious that Ford was going to win.

 

[Thinker]

https://toronto.citynews.ca/video/2...oned-about-96-councillors-in-leeds-grenville/

Wow, get this guy off TV for a while. He just destroyed all reasoning for cutting the size of Toronto council, while his riding has 96 councillors and 10 mayors.

Well it just demonstrates the grudge against Toronto and our 'lefty' councillors. So blatant.

 

[King of Kensington]

Conservative support typically gets under-sampled and liberal support (Liberals/NDP/Greens) over-sampled in official polls though. I had many people on here ridicule me up to 72 hours before the election for daring to state the obvious that Ford was going to win.

Actually, all the major pollsters predicted a PC majority.

 

[zang]

Actually, all the major pollsters predicted a PC majority.

The conservative agenda doesn’t fly with people too well if they don’t frame themselves against the “tyrannical left” as the underdogs. That said, %60 of the eligible voters still didn’t vote for this carnival show.

 

[Northern Light]

Fedeli is out w/his claimed deficit numbers for Ontario.

He says last year wasn't balanced, but instead 3.7B deficit.

This year is not 6.5B but instead 15B.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ontario-independent-commission-accounting-practices-1.4831323

Keep in mind that 4B is a straight up swap of accounting standards, the rest I will have to see the details on, but apply the appropriate grain of salt here.