[adma]

On conflation between urban boundary/municipal boundaries being conflated, I think I’ve seen more people conflating (or at least equating) Hamilton’s urban boundary expansion with its simultaneous greenbelt removal.

Well, that's more casually easy to do. Whereas "city limits" are--or were, in the days of physical maps and before megamergers ran amok--clear and sacrosanct.

Or, the proverbial official "Wackyland" sign announcing a place and its population held more gravity than even the start of subdivision (and that even went for places w/plenty of undeveloped hinterland)

 

[ShonTron]

She booted out the rogue antisemite from her caucus. It took a week longer than it should have, but Stiles gets my respect for doing the right thing. It was too much for me seeing our own little Kristallnacht outside Jewish-owned businesses these past two weeks. The NDP at both provincial and federal levels seems to struggle with antisemitism within their ranks, and I can’t support Doug and his corruption; so I‘m going to support Crombie and the OLP in the next election.

She wasn’t Pro-Israel enough, not antisemitic. I really don’t like it when people confuse the two.

 

[Northern Light]

She wasn’t Pro-Israel enough, not antisemitic. I really don’t like it when people confuse the two.

I would take a different tack. Whatever one's position on the Israel-Palestine issue; the simple reality is that she was directed by the leader of her party to delete the statement that offended many and seemed to many quite inappropriate in the wake of recent events (while critiquing Israel, in the immediate aftermath of the Hamas attacks, she did not mention said acts or provide any acknowledgment of the suffering of Israeli civilians)

She refused to delete the post in question.

I think this had less to do w/the underlying position than it did defiance of the leader's office, and a refusal to help make a a political problem go away.

Even after being booted from caucus and formally censured by the legislature (she will not be recognized to speak for the next six months unless she deletes the offending post and apologizes) she refused to speak to the media.

Her political savvy is sorely lacking.

For the record, I disagree with the censure. I think Ms. Jama's comments were insensitive, ill-timed and one-sided, but I defend her right to open her mouth to find a place she can insert her foot. I don't think the gov't denying an MPP the right to speak,
because they don't like what she said is a healthy precedent, irrespective of Ms. Jama's poor judgement.

 

[lenaitch]

For the record, I disagree with the censure. I think Ms. Jama's comments were insensitive, ill-timed and one-sided, but I defend her right to open her mouth to find a place she can insert her foot. I don't think the gov't denying an MPP the right to speak,
because they don't like what she said is a healthy precedent, irrespective of Ms. Jama's poor judgement.

We can debate whether Jama should be censured by the Legislature or have that left to her constituents down the road, but she is the member of team NDP and defied the direction of the team leader.

I typically stay out of any discussions surrounding Israel. Terms like 'genocide', 'atrocity' and 'occupation' are tossed around by both sides of the argument, and it seems the discussions have little place for nuance.

 

[Northern Light]

We can debate whether Jama should be censured by the Legislature or have that left to her constituents down the road, but she is the member of team NDP and defied the direction of the team leader.

I typically stay out of any discussions surrounding Israel. Terms like 'genocide', 'atrocity' and 'occupation' are tossed around by both sides of the argument, and it seems the discussions have little place for nuance.

Except for the fact I'll come down on the anti-censure side, I agree w/the above in its entirety.

 

[lenaitch]

Except for the fact I'll come down on the anti-censure side, I agree w/the above in its entirety.

Except that pretty much every institution, including this forum, has rules of conduct for its participants. I'm a little on the edge here; if her social medium statement(s) were under her own handle, then perhaps, but if she sent it from Jama@ndp or something similar, then she represents the Legislature.

I don't really mind the Legislature having rules of conduct; I'm less thrilled that the governing party can invoke their enforcement. So much of our parliamentary procedure is governed by tradition and self-written 'guidelines' that seem to be followed, ignored or re-written at whim.

 

[Admiral Beez]

I honestly do not see the PC's winning the next election. If the Greenbelt, Wedding invites, etc had not come up they may have stood a fighting chance however now it is a crapshoot.

The PC Caucus likely knows the writing is on the wall. If Bonnie Crombie gets in alongside Marit Stiles they are toast.

Stiles seems to be alienating the sizeable SJW members of their party. If these folks refrain from voting in 2026 we may see the OLP take a few NDP seats.

The upcoming by-election in Kitchener will be a good gauge, and I give good odds on the OLP taking the seat, https://kellysteiss.ontarioliberal.ca/. Stiles would probably be glad to be rid of those loons from KW.

 

[Admiral Beez]

At the precise moment when we need an effective official opposition, the NDP lets itself be distracted by an external issue. Stiles waited too long to deal with this, and now we have thinly veiled accusations of racism being made by Jill Andrew. It just doesn't look like a party that is ready to form a government. I guess I will end up supporting the Liberals as usual, whoever they select as leader.

The ONDP's golden, once in a generation opportunity to win was at the 2022 general election. Ontarians were reeling from over thirteen thousand (as of June 2022) Covid-related dead due to poor government oversight of LTC homes and overall neglect of public health and safety. If the NDP couldn't pull it off then, they'll never have another chance until this current lot are all gone and forgotten, likely in the 2040s.

I'm voting for Crombie. And I would not be surprised if we don't see a sizable turnout for the OLP in 2026. I just hope Crombie is smart enough to NOT have a single Wynne/McGuinty former cabinet minister or even backbencher MPP in any cabinet or roles with any responsibility. Those folks are all tainted - so keep them away.

 

[Richard White]

Stiles seems to be alienating the sizeable SJW members of their party. If these folks refrain from voting in 2026 we may see the OLP take a few NDP seats. The upcoming by-election in Kitchener will be a good gauge, and I give good odds on the OLP taking the seat, https://kellysteiss.ontarioliberal.ca/

As an NDP member who cannot stand the SJW wing of the party I say good riddens.

There are far too many woke and SJW members in the party which will be their downfall. We need to focus on the issues not quibble about how someone got disciplined and playing the discrimination card.

She made a stupid comment and was rightfully disciplined for it. You cannot just say whatever the hell you want to or take whatever position you see fit when you are in public office.

If members of the NDP want to be activists fine, do that outside public office. When a member of the NDP gets elected they should focus on the issues of the day and holding the government to account.

If MPPs want to be activists or fight for a cause, they need to resign and go into the private sector.

 

[Richard White]

The ONDP's golden, once in a generation opportunity to win was at the 2022 general election. Ontarians were reeling from over thirteen thousand (as of June 2022) Covid-related dead due to poor government oversight of LTC homes and overall neglect of public health and safety. If the NDP couldn't pull it off then, they'll never have another chance until this current lot are all gone and forgotten, likely in the 2040s.

I'm voting for Crombie. And I would not be surprised if we don't see a sizable turnout for the OLP in 2026. I just hope Crombie is smart enough to NOT have a single Wynne/McGuinty former cabinet minister or even backbencher MPP in any cabinet or roles with any responsibility. Those folks are all tainted - so keep them away.

I agree.

I have been voting NDP since I was 18 but I have lost faith in them. I fully intend to vote for the Liberals next election because quite frankly I want a government who will work for me.. not be an activist for every social cause out there.

 

[adma]

Though one must say that Gaza was an unforeseen tripwire for all of this--even if Jama's record was already "known" going into the byelection.

And because this is all so very sudden and "circumstantial", I also have my skepticism about the likes of the Sun's Brian Lilley stating w/confidence that Stiles is "failing" and "won't last long"--even if it suits *his* preferred looney-left knives-directed-inward narrative...

 

[Admiral Beez]

She wasn’t Pro-Israel enough, not antisemitic. I really don’t like it when people confuse the two.

I suppose. But we're not seeing mobs of Israel supporters protesting outside Palestinian businesses or places of worship.

It's not a big leap from this:

Chris Selley: Let the pro-Hamas protests go on, so that Canadians can face the vileness

Attempts to 'ban' such protests, now or in future, would be fruitless — and anyway, they wouldn't work

nationalpost.com

To this....

Dagestan: Mob storms Russian airport in search of Jews

Israel urges Russia to protect Jews after furious crowd confronts passengers arriving from Tel Aviv.

www.bbc.com

But what I would rather is that the Ontario legislature stay in their lane. I'm an immigrant from the UK, and I would never, ever, not once, consider demanding my MPP speak on matters happening in the UK, for example how the UK is shipping illegal migrants to Rwanda, or how Brexit is increasing the risk of sectarian violence in Northern Ireland. There are millions of ex-pat Brits here in Canada who may have an opinion on such things, but I doubt it - when we came to Canada we left what was happening in the old country behind. And if my MPP did start speaking on matters in the UK I would expect the Speaker, the party leader(s) and the electorate to tell the MPP to shut it and stay on topic. That's what I wanted to hear from Stiles, Ford and the Speaker..... "Ms. Jama, whatever is happening in Palestine has no relevance to the business of this legislature"

 

[DSC]

But what I would rather is that the Ontario legislature stay in their lane. I'm an immigrant from the UK, and I would never, ever, not once, consider demanding my MPP speak on matters happening in the UK, for example how the UK is shipping illegal migrants to Rwanda, or how Brexit is increasing the risk of sectarian violence in Northern Ireland. There are millions of ex-pat Brits here in Canada who may have an opinion on such things, but I doubt it - when we came to Canada we left what was happening in the old country behind. And if my MPP did start speaking on matters in the UK I would expect the Speaker, the party leader(s) and the electorate to tell the MPP to shut it and stay on topic. That's what I wanted to hear from Stiles, Ford and the Speaker..... "Ms. Jama, whatever is happening in Palestine has no relevance to the business of this legislature"

While I agree that what is happening in another country is really not the business of our MPPs, there are events that happen elsewhere that ARE our (or their) concern because they result in public demonstrations here.

I do not remember anyone here demonstrating in front of the UK consulate about the foolishness of Brexit or the immorality of sending refugee claimants (or 'illegal migrants') to Rwanda. However, there are many demonstrations here in favour of, or opposed to, both Israel and Palestine (and Hamas) and THAT is surely something our elected representatives can (and maybe should) discuss as what is happening there DOES have relevance here.

 

[Admiral Beez]

However, there are many demonstrations here in favour of, or opposed to, both Israel and Palestine (and Hamas) and THAT is surely something our elected representatives can (and maybe should) discuss as what is happening there DOES have relevance here.

Good point. Yes, and the relevance of such demonstrations to the Ontario government is the protection of the peace and rights of Ontarians. Go ahead and protest, march and yell about whatever ails you. But when Jama or any opposition MPP speaks, I want to hear about how they're holding Ford and the government to account on matters critical to Ontario, such as failing health care, education, infrastructure and matters concerning corruption and cronyism. Imagine if I was your MPP, and had my two minutes to make a speech to the legislature, and instead of calling out such failures and corruption, spent my two minutes talking about matters concerning people in my origin country. Someone would be right to turn off my microphone.

And it's not bad for a MPP to speak on and promote matters outside of the legislature concerning the wishes of their constituents. Jama could have written or spoken to DFAIT or Trudeau on their behalf and about the need to emphasize the nuance in this war.

 

[Jonny5]

I am shocked!

https://twitter.com/x/status/1719037978490581091