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afransen said:
Not sure these are of comparable scale. Whitby GO is about 36 acres with its parking. Similar for Oakville GO. Lets say the four GO stations in question are up to 200 acres. Ford removed 7400 acres from the Greenbelt.
Click to expand...

Well........

I may beg to differ.

Even if one assumes Jen Keesmaat's example was meant to imply these 4 sites are equivalent to the entire 7,400 acres..........(which I don't think represents her intent)

How many units of housing are likely to be built on some of these parcels, some of which are currently un-serviced, not next to any existing development or whitebelt lands?

I'm going to suggest, absent concrete proposals, that allowing for roads/parks/schools etc, we could be looking at proposals that would net as little 2 units per acre and unlikely to net more than 5.

That gives you a range of 14,800 units - 32,000 units.

On the other hand, the 200 acres of PMTSA-type sites, which could easily see 50s towers, could reasonably generate 500 units per acre w/o difficulty, even allowing for parks, roads and schools.

That's 100,000 units.

Even if you think I'm overestimating by 1/2, you get 50,000 units.,

I'm not sure the comparison is so inapt as you think.

I would then suggest, that she used these 4 sites as examples, and if you extended them to other comparable GO Stations......the case is well made that no land from the Greenbelt is required to generate the amount of housing that the Greenbelt land transfers is likely to generate.
 
But, isn't intensification of the PMTSAs already part of the plan?

500 units per acre is 1,250 units/hectare and about 2500 residents per hectare, 250,000/km2. That's extreme density. We can't keep dropping MCCs in the suburbs without the appropriate transit to support the density. 30 minute GO service won't cut it.

I don't think the land needs to or ought to be removed from the greenbelt. I think any significant future greenfield development should be contingent on high quality transit being installed first and the whole development being built to be supportive of moderately high density (at least 8k to 10k/km2). Any transitional lower density development should be designed to be readily replaced with higher density in future.
 
afransen said:
But, isn't intensification of the PMTSAs already part of the plan?
Click to expand...

Zoning permission for those areas designated as such is in the plans.

However, if Metrolinx doesn't partner up with a developer/develop the land itself, its parking lots won't be developed by any zoning permission.

Zoning doesn't compel development, it allows it.

The sites identified by Keesmaat are not currently in a development pipeline.

afransen said:
500 units per acre is 1,250 units/hectare and about 2500 residents per hectare, 250,000/km2. That's extreme density. We can't keep dropping MCCs in the suburbs without the appropriate transit to support the density. 30 minute GO service won't cut it.
Click to expand...

I don't disagree, and as I noted, we could play w/the numbers, but there are a lot more than 4 large publicly owned parking lots, near transit stations in suburbia {and some in Toronto) not currently zoned for and/or in the development pipeline.

I would note Keesmaat cites one location on the Line 1 subway (407 station); 2 on the Lakeshore GO line (planned for 15m or better service) and one on Milton. Only the last of these will have mediocre service as far as the eye can see.

afransen said:
I don't think the land needs to or ought to be removed from the greenbelt.
Click to expand...

On this we agree.

afransen said:
I think any significant future greenfield development should be contingent on high quality transit being installed first and the whole development being built to be supportive of moderately high density (at least 8k to 10k/km2). Any transitional lower density development should be designed to be readily replaced with higher density in future.
Click to expand...

As this is not yet in place, nor on most of the Greenbelt sites will it ever or foreseeably be in place; I don't know that I can agree.

Certainly, if development were to proceed, you have an endorsable idea. But I just don't see that was what can or will happen. They are not the right sites for that.
 
Richard White said:
This will come back to haunt them next election. It will be just like E-Health and the Gas Plants.

If Ford does not reverse course on this is may hurt him down the road. The Opposition can paint him as corrupt and have the proof to back it up.
Click to expand...
Messing with the Greenbelt was politically stupid. Then again, the next election is in 2026. He might do a turnaround again. /sigh
 
Forget about the integrity commissioner. This is the job of the OPP or RCMP. Even at the lowest level, this Amato guy needs to be arrested for abetting corruption.

www.blogto.com

People in Ontario call for Doug Ford to resign after Greenbelt development scandal

Doug Ford is in potentially more hot water than ever today after a damning revelation that, as many suspected, big developers had an enormous influ...
www.blogto.com www.blogto.com


“In one instance, according to a timeline of key events in the report, two prominent housing developers approached Amato in September 2022 at a building industry event and provided him with "packages" containing information on two sites — an area in the Duffins Rouge Agricultural Preserve (DRAP) in Pickering and a site in the Township of King that was purchased that very month for $80 million.”
 
Admiral Beez said:
Forget about the integrity commissioner. This is the job of the OPP or RCMP. Even at the lowest level, this Amato guy needs to be arrested for abetting corruption.

www.blogto.com

People in Ontario call for Doug Ford to resign after Greenbelt development scandal

Doug Ford is in potentially more hot water than ever today after a damning revelation that, as many suspected, big developers had an enormous influ...
www.blogto.com www.blogto.com


“In one instance, according to a timeline of key events in the report, two prominent housing developers approached Amato in September 2022 at a building industry event and provided him with "packages" containing information on two sites — an area in the Duffins Rouge Agricultural Preserve (DRAP) in Pickering and a site in the Township of King that was purchased that very month for $80 million.”
Click to expand...

I am not sure if I trust OPP for this job. What this country sorely needs is an independent anti-corruption force.

AoD
 
Good summary here:

We are expected to believe that Doug Ford and the Minister of Municipal Affairs and Housing, Steve Clark, knew nothing. The mastermind was Ryan Amato, Clark’s Chief of Staff.
Knaves or Fools? If they knew nothing, they are either knaves or fools. I’d say both.

Selling the Greenbelt: Ryan Amato was the mastermind. Ford and Clark were kept in the dark - Gordon Prentice at Large - Politics in Newmarket

Steve Clark's Chief of Staff called the shots on the Greenbelt. That's what we are asked to believe.
www.shrinkslessorsquare.ca www.shrinkslessorsquare.ca
 
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