[DavidH]

In the future world you are talking about, if they electrify the route (is this what you mean by "express"?), then those who arrive just in time for the train at Langstaff may indeed have a faster ride. I guess we will have to wait and see. Right now, though, no.

"Express" means nonstop. No need to electrify. It's just like Lakeshore GO trains running nonstop between Pickering and Union and doing it in a half hour. Electrification will increase the benefits somewhat.

As for it being a future world, well, of course it's in the future. You can't fairly compare future TTC service with present GO service.

 

[nfitz]

I have said it before.....the 3rd largest municipality in the GTA which also has a pretty significant transit system should have direct representation and not have to rely on a neighbouring municipality to represent it.

Brampton? It doesn't. The seat belongs to Region of Peel, and they have chosen Hazel to represent Region of Peel; she doesn't represent Mississauga.

 

[RedRocket191]

"Express" means nonstop. No need to electrify. It's just like Lakeshore GO trains running nonstop between Pickering and Union and doing it in a half hour.

I agree waiting times may be an issue, but people usually manage to time themselves well for those.

GO's definition of express is trains which do not stop at certain stations.

Metrolinx's definition of express, when used as in "Regional Express" means fast (around 80km/h average), frequent (every 15 minutes or better), likely electric trains ie RER.

 

[kEiThZ]

Brampton? It doesn't. The seat belongs to Region of Peel, and they have chosen Hazel to represent Region of Peel; she doesn't represent Mississauga.

Herein lies the problem. We have the mayor of Mississauga representing the transit interests of Peel region, when there are already pretty significant challenges within the region (MT and BT for example) and between MT, TTC and GO. That's exactly why I think the Province should have it as a long term goal to get rid of politicians from the board. Unbiased (or at least those without the appearance of bias) board members without other significant responsiblities (mayor of a city of million people) should be more capable of providing the long term strategic guidance and vision this region craves.

 

[nfitz]

Herein lies the problem. We have the mayor of Mississauga representing the transit interests of Peel region, when there are already pretty significant challenges within the region (MT and BT for example) and between MT, TTC and GO.

Yeah, wouldn't have been my choice; I'm surprised Brampton puts up with it.

And a non-political board might be an idea - but for now they need buy-in from the cities and Regions ... and this might be the best way to do it, for now. So far the process, while not perfect, is moving. One day it might make more sense to go to a different model. But for now, this does make TTC play some ball, given you've got the Mayor of Toronto and Chair of the TTC there every month.

 

[TOareaFan]

Municipalities probably should not be represented at all and neither should any transit system. Metrolinx should not be dominated by opposing local interests.

Personally i think all transit systems should be combined to form one regional transit system. No more TTC getting in the way of MT, no more MT getting in the way of BT, no more GO getting in the way of everyone, because I am sick of it.

I would probably agree....but since that is how it is done now, then leaving out the 3rd largest is a bit bizarre.

 

[TOareaFan]

Yeah, wouldn't have been my choice; I'm surprised Brampton puts up with it.

not given much choice....as long as Peel Region's government is dominated by a Mississauga marjority then Brampton will have to rely on the mayor of Mississauga representing Brampton...something they are oh so good at!!!!

 

[nfitz]

Oh well, just think how Caledon feels

 

[RedRocket191]

Oh well, just think how Caledon feels

Caledon loves GO but hates densities above 7 units per hectare.

And for the record, no one municipality has majority control on regional council. The seat distribution is clever enough to ensures that you need the support of at least two municipalities to get their measure passed.

 

[Disparishun]

"Express" means nonstop. No need to electrify. It's just like Lakeshore GO trains running nonstop between Pickering and Union and doing it in a half hour. Electrification will increase the benefits somewhat.

So, wait, you want to run trains from Langstaff to Union without stopping at Old Cummer or Oriole? Why on Earth would your future world do that, when it's at Old Cummer and Oriole that the greatest ridership gains are to be had?

As for it being a future world, well, of course it's in the future. You can't fairly compare future TTC service with present GO service.

What are you talking about? I am comparing present TTC service with present GO service. That's what this thread was about, remember? The present world where a TTC ride runs $2.75, anywhere in the 416; GO charges $4.85, Langstaff to Union; and taking GO from Langstaff to Union makes little sense:

If someone lived in Richmond Hill near Langstaff Station, why would they pay GO $4.85 to travel to Union when they could pay $2.75 on a subway service that will come at least every 15 minutes? That is a lot of savings over the course of a year even though the route will be slower.

And, indeed, it is faster (and, as it happens, cheaper) to head to Finch than to Langstaff if your starting point is equidistant to both and your ending point is Union.

 

[TOareaFan]

Caledon loves GO but hates densities above 7 units per hectare.

And for the record, no one municipality has majority control on regional council. The seat distribution is clever enough to ensures that you need the support of at least two municipalities to get their measure passed.

There are 25 members....the 3 mayors....11 Mississauga council, 6 Brampton council members and 4 Caledon Council members.

So 13 is a majority.....Mississauga voting as a block has 12....so Caledon and Brampton would have to totally agree on something (not impossible but harder than Mississauga agreeing as a block) to get a tie and then the tie is broken by the Chair. The Chair has Caledon roots but there is a general feel (maybe biased by where I live) that unless the Mayor of Mississauga supports something then it will not get support around the table........not that she is a bad person but she is a very powerful/persuasive politician.

When it was announced that Metrolinx would only have one representative from Peel.....there were three general perceptions (that people communicated to me...there may have been others):

1. Given the relative population of Peel to the other regions....perhaps they should have more than one;

2. Given that Brampton's population is nearly as big as, for example, the Regional Municipality of Durham.....is it right that it is not directly represented

3. If there was only going to be one representative from Peel it would be the Mayor of Mississauga (no disprespect to Mayor Fennell but if you were in Caledon and it was a given that your Mayor was not getting onto that board...who would you pick from the other two.....so the 3rd largest municipality with a fairly largeish transit system was going to have to rely on the Mayor of a neighbouring municipality for representation......Mayor Hazel is, by no means, "anti-Brampton" but when it comes down to something that is good for Mississauga versus something else that is good for Brampton, what is she going to vote for?)

 

[adma]

2. Given that Brampton's population is nearly as big as, for example, the Regional Municipality of Durham.....is it right that it is not directly represented

Though it's catching up. 2006 Census: 433,806 in Brampton; 561,258 in Durham Region--and Brampton's growing faster...

 

[DavidH]

So, wait, you want to run trains from Langstaff to Union without stopping at Old Cummer or Oriole? Why on Earth would your future world do that, when it's at Old Cummer and Oriole that the greatest ridership gains are to be had?

GO's intent is to run more express services wherever it makes sense. If we're serious about using GO to get people off of the subway and onto GO for reasons of managing capacity on Yonge, it makes sense to at least consider some express runs.

 

[kEiThZ]

There are 25 members....the 3 mayors....11 Mississauga council, 6 Brampton council members and 4 Caledon Council members.

So 13 is a majority.....Mississauga voting as a block has 12....so Caledon and Brampton would have to totally agree on something (not impossible but harder than Mississauga agreeing as a block) to get a tie and then the tie is broken by the Chair. The Chair has Caledon roots but there is a general feel (maybe biased by where I live) that unless the Mayor of Mississauga supports something then it will not get support around the table........not that she is a bad person but she is a very powerful/persuasive politician.

When it was announced that Metrolinx would only have one representative from Peel.....there were three general perceptions (that people communicated to me...there may have been others):

1. Given the relative population of Peel to the other regions....perhaps they should have more than one;

2. Given that Brampton's population is nearly as big as, for example, the Regional Municipality of Durham.....is it right that it is not directly represented

3. If there was only going to be one representative from Peel it would be the Mayor of Mississauga (no disprespect to Mayor Fennell but if you were in Caledon and it was a given that your Mayor was not getting onto that board...who would you pick from the other two.....so the 3rd largest municipality with a fairly largeish transit system was going to have to rely on the Mayor of a neighbouring municipality for representation......Mayor Hazel is, by no means, "anti-Brampton" but when it comes down to something that is good for Mississauga versus something else that is good for Brampton, what is she going to vote for?)

And that shows exactly why we should only have technocrats on the board....sadly, it probably won't happen.

 

[Paleo]

Musing, for a moment: is "don't steal my seat" the transit version of NIMBYism?

Anyway, back to reality: your assertions don't make sense. First you say that the Yonge extension will have low ridership volumes. Then you complaint that it will take away seats.

Choose one. If there are not enough seats to go around despite low ridership volumes pn the Yonge extension, then clearly the primary cause of not enough seats cannot be the Yonge extension -- it has to be a lack of TTC capacity to serve ridership irrespective of the Yonge extension.

Why is it hard to accept that both can be true. If the Yonge line is at capacity, then even 1,000 or 2,000 new riders from the north end heading south will put it over. At the same time, 8,800pph is woefully underutilized when the line capacity is 30,000pph.