[EnviroTO]

A grown, mature woman trying to do her job shouldn't be subjected to shit logic curses just because she has no control over what race she was born into. Neither should I, and this constant defense of what I thought would be a rational discussion on race is getting tiresome.

Was she called the n-word because the guy thinks of all black people a certain way or did he call her the n-word because he thought of her in a certain way.

Your life experiences are a world apart of mine I'd imagine so please don't insinuate either myself or other blacks who haven't sought out to hurt others by race should be victim of racism themselves.

Hurting "by race" is bad but other hurting is fine?

Agreed, calling someone a nigger isn't racism !

The rolling eyes don't make it convincing. When Chris Tucker says "what's up my n-word" is it or is it not racism. You can't say the n-word is always racism and at the same time say it isn't always racism.

In response to 'asshole' there's a zillion things he could of thought up instead of taking the easy, obvious, brain-dead route of insult.

There are a zillion things better she could say rather than call him an a-hole. Is calling someone an a-hole the complicated, non-obvious, civilized response?

I guess he's exemplar of how ignorant some memebers of society truly appear to be on the inside.

You think he is ignorant. She thinks the parking attendant is the void in the middle of an anal sphincter. The guy has two arm, two legs, clothing, a head... obviously he isn't an a-hole. What was she thinking. Duh! Someone should show her pictures of an a-hole so she can tell them apart in the future.

For several blacks it is the daily struggle.

I don't disagree. However I don't think a heated exchange of words is any more a struggle than other people experience. If she had been a blonde he may have called her a dumb bimbo and the end result is he had a stinging insult in response to a vulgarity. Some people would be very insulted being called an a-hole, some people would shrug off being called the n-word. Each persons sensitivity is different. In addition a large number of blacks live without any daily struggle. Some integrate easily and others do not.

Race-specific curse words are particularly vial and demeaning given Africa and Asia's shared colonial pasts. We should be united on the charge to put away verbal machetes, not on opposing sides!

You seem to think that somehow an insult towards black people is a major infraction but insults to other groups is somehow less so. If you haven't been a Chinese being called names (i.e. the ethnic group brought over to work on the railroad in poor conditions), Japanese (i.e. the group who were put in camps during the world war despite being Canadians), Jewish, Kosovar, physically weak, mentally weak, a non-black person with low self-esteem, a brainiac in a phys-ed class, fat, bulimic, etc... how can you be so certain that the n-word is so much worse than every other insult. How can you be so certain that growing up in a poor single parent white family with parental abuse isn't more difficult than growing up black.

An insult is an insult. People shouldn't be insulting people. Insulting and name calling is not civilized and achieves no worthy benefit. No insult is intelligent and well thought out. The only thought in people's minds when people are quickly coming up with an insult is a way to hurt the person emotionally. A successful insult, uncivilized as may be, is the one that isn't easily shrugged off. Unless you have never called someone names or insulted someone you can't claim to be innocent of trying to hurt someone emotionally.

 

[rpgr]

Nice to hear since you definitely need God, son. I'll say a little prayer for your tortured soul.



Since this thread has completely devolved to hell, I may as well now. I'm not gonna take shit from anyone, life's too short to have to defend these ad hominen attacks on my character constantly just for asserting some social justice and activism on behalf of innocent people being brandished niggers like some dog when they're upstanding, contributing members of society. You and your **** associates can go kiss my black ass!



No, I think real racism stems from one seeking out every oppurtunity life has to offer only to continually see doors closed in their face for no other reason than being the wrong color. Then when said person in hopelessness and dispair thinks he can find an open-minded, tolerant sympathetic venue to discuss possible ways to overcome systematic racism which does exist in Canadian comtemporary society, he gets harassed and bullied by the very racist proclivities he sought to eliminate from his life. The ugliness and true hatred displayed by you and others here, havev only stretghened my opinions and convictions about race relations. Thanks for not proving me wrong!



Everyone's a hypocrite. When this thread began everyone said how sorry they were for what happened to this innocent reporter being shown less respect than what's bestowed on an animal. Now it's a free-for-all character assasination, unbleeping the N-word to prove to the one self-identified black person that the racism he was fighting to escape in the real world has followed him into virtual reality!



Sorry you feel that way...not!

If you're so small-minded that you can't get over incidents that occured over two decades ago to the point you can't apply unbiased objectivity to this discussions, and yes even to my posts, then you have no business being here. I was very polite to you and even apologized for unintentional harm. I guess you're still a child, if even after all these years you equate elementary school bullies (which affect millions of kids, even when both bully and victim are of the same race), such that I have to wonder what's so special about you.

If I'm the only one 'crying' over this incident does that not infer to you that in fact racism is a bigger detriment to Black-Candians' lives than it is for other ethnic groups? You can either prove me wrong or take your own advice and STFU! You can't have it both ways. Fred Durst said it best:

We don't, don't give a fuck
We will, never give a fuck
Until, you give a fuck about me
And my generation!



Why, so you can silence the voices of righteousness and honesty yet again? I'd love for the day when society wrongs you because of your ad hominen and you come on here expecting my sympathies. Karma's a rotten turd !

You didn't apologize for anything. Your the biggest damn hypocrite and liar. Even others have seen through your thinly veiled attempts and have highlighted where exactly where you failed. The only person who karma is hitting right now is you.

Of course your blindness just can't see that you have nobody taking your side.

 

[Steve_D]

If you're so small-minded that you can't get over incidents that occured over two decades ago

...like slavery?

Do you set yourself up on purpose, or are you really that ignorant?

 

[rpgr]

Detro is as effective for fighting for Black equality as this guy is for fighting for Natives' equality

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Ahenakew

 

[rpgr]

...like slavery?

Do you set yourself up on purpose, or are you really that ignorant?

I was going to post some lynch mob pictures but those made me sick and decided against it.

 

[Steve_D]

I was going to post some lynch mob pictures but those made me sick and decided against it.

...pictures of torture, however, are acceptable...as dentro has shown by posting them in unrelated threads.

 

[DENTROBATE54]

Did either of you take notice to how Enviro was able to critique my posts without resorting to petty, juvenile ad hominen attacks on my character? Nice to see someone here still adheres to courteous and respectful codes of behaviour. If you both are that immature and incapable of contributing positively to this discussion without letting your ignorance cloud and bias your objectivity on this forum topic, allow people who are to conduct their business in a harassment-free environment PLEASE!!

If you're that intimidated by POV, why continually respond to it, knowing I won't allow inconsiderate, closed-minded people to spread negativity in what was otherwise an uplifting, inspiring conversation with good-natured folks before you two came along ?!

 

[Steve_D]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Did either of you take notice to how Enviro was able to critique my posts without resorting to petty, juvenile ad hominen attacks on my character?

How come you didn't notice, or take note of how it's done?
Why resort to hypocricy, again?

 

[TKTKTK]

If you're that intimidated by POV, why continually respond to it, knowing I won't allow inconsiderate, closed-minded people to spread negativity in what was otherwise an uplifting, inspiring conversation with good-natured folks before you two came along ?!

Honestly, read this thread from the beginning. The third post is from Hydrogen, calling your rhetoric into question. That tone has continued page after page. We're good-natured folk, but no one's interested in humouring prejudicial beliefs - no matter whom they emanate from.

Please stop complaining about "ad hominen" attacks when you're engaging in them yourself.

 

[EnviroTO]

...like slavery?

Other than receiving no inheritance the primary problems blacks experience today is not directly related to slavery anyways. It is directly related to urban projects and how black people in those urban projects behaved. Only being in those projects was more directly related to slavery and racism. Look at street violence where black students are being shot in the street and gangs... during slavery after a day of cotton picking the uneducated youth (uneducated because they were not instructed, not because they were in capable of learning) did not separate into gangs and do drive by shootings. There was no gangster rap. Blacks didn't have freedom and were kept from reaching their potential, some were physically abused and rarer instances killed by their owners, but they were not taught to steal by their owners nor did they join gangs. The stereotype of black people in those times was probably that they were not smart but the stereotype was not that they were violent or lazy. They were the workers! The negative stereotype of black people today is not primarily focused on intelligence but on other things and those stereotypes come from what black people in urban projects did after they got their freedom.

A person is most likely to become violent with those that make them most angry. You need to be really pissed off at someone to get to the point that you want to kill them. If certain white people are the ones causing most of the problems in black lives why aren't those certain white people the ones being shot by black people? Doesn't the fact that black people are shooting black people say that their biggest problems are internal?

The problems in Rwanda are probably more directly related to white involvement than what is occurring in North American black communities today. In some parts of Africa the Europeans clearly identified clans or tribes and put some groups in positions of power and some in positions of weakness. This in part has led to the problems of Rwanda and Kenya. In North America during slavery black people were black people, there was no division into gangs, groups, tribes, etc... all the gangs and divisiveness in the black community in North America came after black people were given their freedom.

 

[Prometheus The Supremo]

i got a question about the N word.

there's an argument in this thread that the word nigger carries more weight than the word honkey because of the historical suffering attached to the word. i agree that the N word is more painful in that respect. but what about when someone uses a euphemism or new word instead of the N word? like that instance where people were using the term canadian instead? does calling a person a canadian in the same ethnic defamatory context as calling a person a nigger as serious of an offense? the term canadian does not carry any historical weight as the other term. is calling a person a canadian like calling a person a honkey?

this brings in to question another serious issue. what is more important? context or grammar?

which is worse....

a man says this about his best friend...
"i love this nigger. he saved my life and i will be forever grateful to him"

or

a man says this about a stranger he sees on the street...
"i hate these damn canadians"


it's true that words express ideas but when people make up new words to express old ideas it's just the same. the other thing is that words can have a duality depending the context that they are used in.

for example:

"i nailed this chick" (context of sexual penetration)

and

"humans are nailed" (context of having fingernails)



i was taught in school to say fudge instead of fuck when i got upset about something but aren't i still expressing the same context? where the hell is the logic in that? what happens when everybody starts saying fudge instead of fuck?


just some thoughts on language.

 

[DENTROBATE54]

Honestly, read this thread from the beginning. The third post is from Hydrogen, calling your rhetoric into question. That tone has continued page after page. We're good-natured folk, but no one's interested in humouring prejudicial beliefs - no matter whom they emanate from.

Please stop complaining about "ad hominen" attacks when you're engaging in them yourself.

And he did so without defaming my character. Using ad hominen attacks to exemplify the mental anguish of ad hominen attacks perpetraited on me, for just unfiltering the lens of contemporary Western society, is no different than other forms of reverse psychology. Why should rpgr and Steve_D, get a free pass to nail me to the cross? I have the right to and will defend my POV whenever I'm disrespected. I'm not backing down and won't be walked all over by some juvenile dim-witted punks. I suppose nothing's changed afterall and 'niggers' should not be seen and definitely not heard ! That's effectively how I feel everytime they post in here, mocking me with their 'status' and 'affluent airs'.

Can't you see the mindgames certain individuals are trying to play against me here? They want me to be the aggressor so that the thread can be shut down. They have zero interest in contributing anything on-topic to the discussion, only to further erode any trust and fidelity I thought I'd experience in a free-thinking online community. I could easily continue to take shots at these individuals but I'm taking the moral high ground here and moving on. Let them stew a while in their own malcontent and allow me the oppurtunity to an opinion without fear of persecution.

I swear it's almost like it is such a culture shock for some individuals to see an intelligent black person not afraid to assert equal rights for themselves, in a non-violent, non-threatening manner. When a white historian tells you the collective past, in no way is it sugar-coated. So neither should the harsh realities faced by present-day blacks that no white elitist CBC news simulcast is going to mediate to the masses in an honest and unbiased fashion.

You think he is ignorant. She thinks the parking attendant is the void in the middle of an anal sphincter. The guy has two arm, two legs, clothing, a head... obviously he isn't an a-hole. What was she thinking. Duh! Someone should show her pictures of an a-hole so she can tell them apart in the future.

Not to nit-pick, but a hole is an intangible, arbitrary void. It cannot be personified. If anything her journalistic skills brim through by the usage. I've been tempted myself many times just in the past few days to call stubborn, inconsiderate blockheads in my poinion much the same. It's natural to lash out when your pride and ego are threatened. In that sense both guard and reporter are at fault. However, where I seem to differ from the rest of the forum perhaps because I am black myself so should know how it really feels, we must put things in context, scenarios in perspective.

'Nigger'- and I hope we never spell out this scourge again on UT- should be omitted from our collective vocabulary altogether. I'd never go around indiscriminately calling people I don't know 'Mongoloids' or 'white trash' or 'Christ-killers' because I know the historical context and subtext behind those connotations and wouldn't inflict that upon another human being. As I've witnessed, just in this thread we've got a long ways to go as a society in order to match the acclaimed myth of universal plurality and diversity Canada presents to the world.

 

[EnviroTO]

Dentrobate, very little that you type makes any logical sense. You have started using a more advanced vocabulary but the sentences you type make no sense, even on the rare occasion you spell the whole sentence correctly. Nobody would use the words you are using in normal discussion in such small and broken sentences. Changing a sentence like "see Dick run" to "behold Dick scud" doesn't make a point clearer or more intelligent. It would help you if you dropped the more advanced vocabulary, spelled properly, and clearly stated points of view that add value to the discussion with supporting data or observations. Instead you constantly dismiss other points of view not with any rationale but simply because you don't agree and they are wrong. You constantly get argumentative with responses that make no sense and often make arguments that prove the view opposite to the one you are trying to make.

She thinks the parking attendant is the void in the middle of an anal sphincter.

Not to nit-pick, but a hole is an intangible, arbitrary void. It cannot be personified. If anything her journalistic skills brim through by the usage.

What is the point of this rebuttal? The original statement I made was to show that when someone says a-hole they don't mean an actual a-hole. The point is that they meant to insult. Then in response to my statement which mentions "a void" you rebut that its "a void"? First of all a rebuttal doesn't restate exactly the same thing, and secondly a good rebuttal would focus on the primary topic. You say "arbitrary void" but we are talking about an a-hole so it isn't arbitrary. Then you say it can't be personified but people use the a-hole comment to describe people all the time including this journalist. Why would her "journalistic skills brim" and what does "journalistic skills brimming" even mean? Brimming with what? Brimming with effluent from the a-hole? Do you mean to say using the word a-hole should elevate her status as a journalist? A-hole, a-hole, a-hole.... give me a Pulitzer? You typed three sentences, lots of nice words, and absolutely no sense. Most of your posts have been like this.

 

[DENTROBATE54]

Okay I'll dumb it down for the masses. "Asshole" is a raceless insult, it can refer to anyone regardless of ethnic background. As such it's a neutral swear word and her use of it overflows with the type of cultural anonymity at the heart of what normative discourse studies is all about.

That might not have been her intent, maybe she was just POed and said the 1st thing she could think of. But once you're programmed to think a certain way, you subconsciously develop ideologies stemming from those core beliefs. As such one could infer that the security guard also possessed pre-conceived notions of black people and this incident gave him the perfect oppurtunity to test out his tenets on a real-live "nigger" challenging his authority.

"Nigger" however is not neutral or equally applicable to all peoples. It refers specifically to her biological attributes that she had no control over. She was genetically predisposed a black person, just as the guard was conceived white. Had she called him "white trash/cracker", she'd be just as culpable.

She had the good sense not to but at the same time expressed her sentiments of outrage for being denied access to cover a news story that'd be of benefit to a vast polyethnic/miltiracial viewing audience i.e. all society. If you choose to be that selective of who's in the greater red for their actions, at least consider all possible contexts and subtexts, instead of evaluating the incident in a "Us" vs. "Them" binary.

You're not the first and probably won't be the last to judge me based on my academic, formal, sometimes eloquent type of speech. But seriously since when was that a character flaw worth condemning, right ?

 

[EnviroTO]

Okay I'll dumb it down for the masses.

You aren't listening. I'm asking the opposite. Smarten it up by making sense and using words when they are appropriate.

As such it's a neutral swear word and her use of it overflows with the type of cultural anonymity at the heart of what normative discourse studies is all about.

Still more B.S. language. "Overflows" with cultural anonymity? How can you overflow with anonymity? She is taking a course in normative discourse studies?

That might not have been her intent, maybe she was just POed and said the 1st thing she could think of. But once you're programmed to think a certain way, you subconsciously develop ideologies stemming from those core beliefs.

She has subconsciously developed ideologies stemming from the core beliefs that white parking attendants are assholes?

As such one could infer that the security guard also possessed pre-conceived notions of black people and this incident gave him the perfect oppurtunity to test out his tenets on a real-live "nigger" challenging his authority.

You aren't seeing things equally. You are saying that she called him something because she is preconditioned to use it as an insult but do not infer that it is the way she views all white parking attendants. On the other hand you are saying he called her a "nigger" because he has a pre-conceived notion of black people in general and not because he wanted to insult her specifically. You also don't spell out what pre-conceived notion you think using the n-word implies. Yes, the n-word is only an insult which would work on black people, just like "fatso" can only be used on fat people, "bimbo" can only be used on females, and "dumb blonde" is typically directed at blonde females. That does not mean that when someone calls a person a bimbo that they believe all women are bimbos, nor does a person calling someone a dumb blonde imply that the person believes all blonde females are dumb.

"Nigger" however is not neutral or equally applicable to all peoples. It refers specifically to her biological attributes that she had no control over.

The word "black" is also not neutral or equally applicable to peoples and nor is "African". Using those words would refer specifically to a persons biological attributes that they have no control over... yet for some reason a "black school" with "Africentric curriculum" somehow makes sense to you.

She was genetically predisposed a black person, just as the guard was conceived white. Had she called him "white trash/cracker", she'd be just as culpable.

Earlier in the thread you mentioned that calling someone a cracker wouldn't be the same.

She had the good sense not to but at the same time expressed her sentiments of outrage for being denied access to cover a news story that'd be of benefit to a vast polyethnic/miltiracial viewing audience i.e. all society. If you choose to be that selective of who's in the greater red for their actions, at least consider all possible contexts and subtexts, instead of evaluating the incident in a "Us" vs. "Them" binary.

More B.S. speak. She didn't call him a cracker because she knew a-hole was insulting. What was this amazing news story that needed to be covered warranting the need to let her park where she wasn't supposed to. Contexts and subtexts?? She parks in an area she isn't supposed to, he tells her to move, she says its public property, he tells her to move, she calls him an a-hole, he calls her an f-ing n-word.

You're not the first and probably won't be the last to judge me based on my academic, formal, sometimes eloquent type of speech. But seriously since when was that a character flaw worth condemning, right ?

Wrong. There is nothing eloquent about your type of speech. If you speak like that normally out in public people will not understand you and think you are a loon. If you think your speech is eloquent then you can explain what this means and why you thought it valuable to post:

Not to nit-pick, but a hole is an intangible, arbitrary void. It cannot be personified. If anything her journalistic skills brim through by the usage.