[khris]

Canada should really be investing in high speed rail infrastructure right now. It's the best way to get people from point A to B in a fast efficient manner. It brings people from downtown to downtown, and without fuel.
This won't happen with conservatives in power IMHO.

 

[kEiThZ]

^ It didn't happen when the Liberals were in power either. Not just that but the Liberals cut back on some VIA services. Unfortunately, there is no national constituency for HSR. If we want HSR, we would have to pressure the provincial government (Ontario and Quebec) to kick off the project with the bulk of the funding. And they don't want to do it because they want the feds to pay for a good chunk of it. So the waiting continues. It's far easier to blame the federal government than actually take action on your own.

If this project is so important to Ontario and Quebec why can't the provinces get together and announce an incremental HSR construction program? Some 10 year 30 billion dollar plan? When the feds get around to it, they'll come onboard. We shouldn't have to wait for Ottawa every time we want to do something.

 

[nfitz]

Not just that but the Liberals cut back on some VIA services.

What VIA services did the Liberals cut? Well, they cut some just after VIA was created, but the bulk of the cuts were by the Tories. Some (but not much) service was restored during the Chretien government, and some was tried temporarily, but not continued ... but I can't think of any cuts in particular.

 

[Whoaccio]

I wonder how much more fuel efficient HSR really is compared to short-haul flight. It would take many a joule to clear and grade a 500-600km ROW between Toronto & Montreal. Dash 8s are fairly fuel efficient and require relatively little supporting infrastructure (vs. HSR...), so the difference might not be so high. I would imagine it would fall down to ridership. Air travel is pretty scalable (not many passengers, reduce flights...) whereas HSR's environmental impacts are almost entirely fixed (build tracks, buy rolling stock, replace every decade).

If this project is so important to Ontario and Quebec why can't the provinces get together and announce an incremental HSR construction program? Some 10 year 30 billion dollar plan? When the feds get around to it, they'll come onboard. We shouldn't have to wait for Ottawa every time we want to do something.

Clearly you have missed the point of HSR. If Ontario/Quebec actually built the thing, then how would they complain about the Feds? HSR's political value rests in 'announcing' it every time someone new is elected, then complaining the feds don't support "the people of the glorious nation of Quebec" or Ontario, then repeating.

 

[kEiThZ]

What VIA services did the Liberals cut? Well, they cut some just after VIA was created, but the bulk of the cuts were by the Tories. Some (but not much) service was restored during the Chretien government, and some was tried temporarily, but not continued ... but I can't think of any cuts in particular.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Via_Rail#Third_round_of_cuts

 

[toraerach]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Via_Rail#Third_round_of_cuts

I just browsed through that article and I was reminded about this:

While VIA is an independent federal Crown corporation mandated to operate as a business, it is hindered by the fact that it was created by an Order-in-Council of the Privy Council, and not from an actual legislation passed by Parliament. If VIA were enabled by legislation, the company could be permitted to seek funding on the open money markets as other Crown corporations such as CN have done in the past. It is largely for this reason that VIA is vulnerable to federal budget cuts and continues to answer first to its political masters, as opposed to the business decisions needed to ensure the viability of intercity passenger rail service.

I don't know how accurate this is - I remember reading something similar to this years ago - but maybe it's time to bring in the appropriate legislation to enable VIA.

 

[nfitz]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Via_Rail#Third_round_of_cuts

Wow, 15-years ago ... forgot about that.

What a bizarre Wikipedia article ... it seems to highlight service-cuts a quarter-century ago, over information about what VIA is.

 

[kEiThZ]

Hey, you asked if the Liberals cut VIA services. They did. It was only much later in their term that they started improving service. The Conservatives have followed that trend and made some small improvements to VIA's funding. HSR is going to be a whole different ballgame. We have never really spent that much to only serve a few provinces, with an alternative to already existing services. I'd be skeptical if even Iggy is fully on-board.

 

[DavidJamesTO]

Both sides have cut VIA throughout its existence. It's just that the Conservative cuts were the deepest and were more memorable.

There have been several attempts to create a "VIA Rail Act" in Parliament, and they've been shot down each time. I think politicians and the VIA administrators have given up trying.

 

[kEiThZ]

^ I disagree with your suggestion that Conservatives have cut more than the Liberals. Speaking of recent governments, the Conservatives have actually invested more than the Liberals did. This last budget provided funding for the addition of third rail to improve speeds in the Corridor. That's quite a significant investment. And that follows on funding by the Conservatives to rebuild all of VIA's locomotives. Yes, it's not HSR but its significantly more than anything Martin or Chretien ever did for VIA. And these investments should make VIA more competitive with other modes of travel. Right now, VIA barely competes with Greyhound and Coach Canada. With these investments, the government is laying the groundwork to build a solid base of regular VIA riders.

 

[urbanfan89]

Don't forget that Chretien was planning a "Via Fast" initiative along the Windsor - Quebec Corridor, only to let it fall victim to the leadership transition with Martin.

 

[nfitz]

Hey, you asked if the Liberals cut VIA services. They did.

Umm ... yes. Why are you stating this again? I agreed with you earlier.

^ I disagree with your suggestion that Conservatives have cut more than the Liberals.

Uh ... your kidding right? They've been some Liberal cuts ... I certainly forgot about those tit-for-tat ones ... but the bulk of cuts were those in 1990 under Tory PM Mulroney; anything else pales in comparison.

 

[kEiThZ]

Fair enough. But the genesis of this micro-debate was the suggestion that the Harperites are somehow gutting VIA which is entirely untrue. There are many things to disagree with in the Harper Conservatives platform. The investment in VIA is not one of them though.

 

[nfitz]

Fair enough. But the genesis of this micro-debate was the suggestion that the Harperites are somehow gutting VIA which is entirely untrue. There are many things to disagree with in the Harper Conservatives platform. The investment in VIA is not one of them though.

Agreed. The Harper government has been relatively neutral on VIA; as was the Chretien government. It was only the short-lived Martin government that seemed to have an anti-VIA axe to grind ... which surely was related to Martin having owned Voyageur Bus lines.

 

[kEiThZ]

What bugs with debates like this is that Liberal inaction on HSR is forgiven but the Conservatives who only have a few years in office are painted as rail-hating luddites. It's entirely untrue. Not a single via route/service has been cut under Harper. And if the investments of this last budget are successful, VIA will provide better service then it has done, in nearly 2 decades. I think the Conservatives deserve some credit for that. Given their dislike for government run enterprises, I am actually surprised they have done this much for VIA.