[Second_in_pie]

^^ It's a corridor. You're not going to have HSR going to a single "small town" but it'll stop in a "small town" along the way. There are towns along high density corridors in Japan with only 5000 people that get Echo service.

And Japan's network is over twice as long as the Quebec-Windsor corridor, and hey; they have good rail service. You can take a train from one end of the island to the other within hours. Yes, it costs money to do that, and I'd say it's a much better use of money than a) more highways, or b) a new TV for the taxpayer.

 

[nfitz]

there is no city between Toronto and Montreal with a population of 150,000 people or more.

The High Speed routing from Montreal to Toronto goes through Ottawa, which is bigger than 150,000.

While the City of Kingston is under 150,000, the census metropolitan area (CMA) is over 150,000.

Oshawa is a city between Toronto and Montreal and the CMA population is over 300,000.

 

[Woodbridge_Heights]

I have a friend from a small town - not served by the high-speed train in Japan .... population 150,000 people. When you talk about small towns in Japan..... it is of a completely different scale - there is no city between Toronto and Montreal with a population of 150,000 people or more. The cost to construct the network in Japan is more than 1/2 the total accumulated debt of Canada to the current date.

Of course a big city in Japan is what? 14 million? At a scale of 100 to 1 big city population to small a small town in the GTA region would have a population of 25 000?

 

[gweed123]

California and Florida owe a big "thank you" to the Republidiots in Wisconsin and Ohio...

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.co...peed-rail-funds-from-wisconsin-ohio/?hpt=Sbin

Cancelling the project over the $7 million/year operating cost? Are you kidding me?

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Cacruden

there is no city between Toronto and Montreal with a population of 150,000 people or more.

I have a feeling there will be after it is built - if only linking some of the cities (towns) even result in population growth as exurban housing areas for Toronto and MTL. Not a bad thing necessarily either - our small and mid-sized cities aren't doing very well.

AoD

 

[gweed123]

Cacruden



I have a feeling there will be after the is built - if only linking some of the cities (towns) even result in population growth as exurban housing areas for Toronto and MTL. Not a bad thing necessarily either - our small and mid-sized cities aren't doing very well.

AoD

Especially if it becomes a sort of commuter service from places like Niagara Falls, Belleville/Trenton, or London.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

gweed:

Niagara Falls won't be in the Windor-QC alignment but it's a perfect candidate for an extended GO system (though in that case one better have a very strong vision of the urban framework for the region - the worst place for encroachment of prime agricultural lands by sprawl). And as an added bonus it will take some pressure off the GTA and the greenbelt. A win-win.

AoD

 

[gweed123]

gweed:

Niagara Falls won't be in the Windor-QC alignment but it's a perfect candidate for an extended GO system (though in that case one better have a very strong vision of the urban framework for the region - the worst place for encroachment of prime agricultural lands by sprawl). And as an added bonus it will take some pressure off the GTA and the greenbelt. A win-win.

AoD

My thinking was that it would be a relatively inexpensive spur line, and would also service inter-regional trips if it was extended to Buffalo. But you're right, it's not within the corridor itself. I would imagine though that similar spurs would be built to K-W, and possibly Barrie.

EDIT: Also, who's to say that GO couldn't run some sort of high speed service using those new tracks? Hamilton to downtown TO in 20 minutes is a pretty attractive proposition.

 

[DavidJamesTO]

New York state is interested in high-speed links to both Toronto and Montreal. It may not be on the Toronto-Montreal route but it could very well become its own route in time.

 

[Automation Gallery]

New York state is interested in high-speed links to both Toronto and Montreal. It may not be on the Toronto-Montreal route but it could very well become its own route in time.

Why not..if its an American system, then it should be on its own route, whats one Canadian city got to do do with the other...most likely routes would be New York, Albany, Montreal, and the other New York , Albany, Syracuse, Rochester, Buffalo, Toronto..

 

[Second_in_pie]

^^ I think the proposal right now is NYC-Albany-Buffalo-Toronto and Boston-Montreal. Boston-Montreal is iffy enough, going through the very low population area of northern New York would definitely never happen.

Niagara Falls won't be in the Windor-QC alignment but it's a perfect candidate for an extended GO system (though in that case one better have a very strong vision of the urban framework for the region - the worst place for encroachment of prime agricultural lands by sprawl). And as an added bonus it will take some pressure off the GTA and the greenbelt. A win-win.

I agree entirely, hopefully using HSR infrastructure of a Toronto-NYC HSR route. The key issue that's going to arise with HSR is uplifting mid-sized cities and larger towns while not making them dependent (or even worse, bedroom communities,) for the bigger cities. I feel like it may require a paradigm shift in how we conduct business for that to happen though, away from the focus on centralizing everything around bigger cities.
I'd say when building HSR anywhere in the first place, we'll have to do some very careful planning to see how a southern Ontario-Quebec economy/society can function as a region, not just connecting Toronto with Montreal to allow for better business commuting between the two.

 

[dunkalunk]

^^ I think the proposal right now is NYC-Albany-Buffalo-Toronto and Boston-Montreal. Boston-Montreal is iffy enough, going through the very low population area of northern New York would definitely never happen.

I agree entirely, hopefully using HSR infrastructure of a Toronto-NYC HSR route. The key issue that's going to arise with HSR is uplifting mid-sized cities and larger towns while not making them dependent (or even worse, bedroom communities,) for the bigger cities. I feel like it may require a paradigm shift in how we conduct business for that to happen though, away from the focus on centralizing everything around bigger cities.
I'd say when building HSR anywhere in the first place, we'll have to do some very careful planning to see how a southern Ontario-Quebec economy/society can function as a region, not just connecting Toronto with Montreal to allow for better business commuting between the two.

I would think that the price of a ticket would be enough to discourage most long-distance commuting, although people still do commute long distances regardless of the cost to their own time, money, and sanity.

It should be assumed that any high speed infrastructure would also be running some variety of moderately priced local and regional service along much of or at least part of its route, this is how most every other HSR system in the world runs. Its this additional local service that will help enormously with community building in the smaller cities, with proximity to the corridor. (coburg, port hope, chatam, gananoque, ect.)

 

[Automation Gallery]

^^ I think the proposal right now is NYC-Albany-Buffalo-Toronto and Boston-Montreal. Boston-Montreal is iffy enough, going through the very low population area of northern New York would definitely never happen.

Strange that they will not include Rochester and Syracuse in their plans..Metro Rochester with a population of 1.1 million and the 6th most livable city in the USA.. Metro Syracuse has a population of 735.000 people and is rated the fourth best place in the USA to raise a family. Believe me these two towns will not go down without a fight to get HSR

 

[Dan416]

Strange that they will not include Rochester and Syracuse in their plans..Metro Rochester with a population of 1.1 million and the 6th most livable city in the USA.. Metro Syracuse has a population of 735.000 people and is rated the fourth best place in the USA to raise a family. Believe me these two towns will not go down without a fight to get HSR

Are we sure they're being excluded?

 

[Northern Light]

Syracuse and Rochester ARE part of the 'Empire' Corridor (as in New York State, 'The Empire State'.)

So they would be on any upgraded route.

That said..........

The proposal for New York's 'High-Speed' service, which is approved.........is nothing like 'High speed'

Its to upgrade the service to run at 160km/ph (current VIA top speed), where it currently maxes out at about 90.

The corridor is quite congested in places, as it is not Amtrak-owned, and is shared with freight services, which have priority.

The upgrades are not envisioned as being TGV-like for a VERY long time. There is no electrification proposal.

The current proposal is mostly '3rd tracking' and some grade separations/signal improvements.

The service is currently 2 x per day as 'Empire Service' (Buff - NYC) and 1x per day as 'Maple Leaf', (Toronto-NYC)

Current Travel time is around 8 hours on the U.S. side, + 2 on the Cdn side + Customs (1-2 hours) or about 10-12 hours.

If the U.S. side were improved as proposed, they're hoping for a 4-hour run time on their side or (6-8 on the Toronto-NYC run)

VIA is not currently contemplating any upgrades to the Niagara corridor, any improvements would have to be financed through the GO improvements

Customs is an absurd issue, which could be resolved via pre-clearance and reduced to a 30-min pre-board, with little or no wait at the border....but don't hold your breath waiting for that.

.