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GE always struck me as Florida's wet dream. Part of it is NBC, which has gotta be part of the "creative class." A huge chunk is financial (GE Capital). With that in mind, Immelt's denunciation of "financial engineering" in favor of "real engineering" seems hypocritical when GE Capital was one of the most prolific and irresponsible practitioners of the former. In fact, GE Capital contributed about 40% of GE's '08 revenue. Consumer & Industrial technologies (i.e. the people who make washing machines and such) are a real dog for GE, only contributing about 1% of its profits.
 
This is one of the more major flaws with the "creative class" thing. More educate immigrants overwhelmingly seem to choose the suburbs.

As far as I know, suburbs are still considered parts of metropolitan areas. And according to the "creative class" thing, vibrant cities attract skilled immigrants, which leads to growth in the suburbs.

This is not Berlin in 1970, and people don't care (for the most part) about municipal boundaries when it comes to jobs, housing, public services, and so forth.
 
Immigrants settling in the suburbs is totally to be expected. Nobody moves to Canada for the 'European Flat Dream'. They move here for the 'American Dream' of a good job with a house and a car. With condos getting quite expensive and decreasing in size, the outflow of immigrants to the suburbs was to be expected. One thing to keep in mind is that immigrants often want larger spaces for the larger families they have (more kids or extended families living together). That kind of space does not come cheap in the city.
 
As far as I know, suburbs are still considered parts of metropolitan areas. And according to the "creative class" thing, vibrant cities attract skilled immigrants, which leads to growth in the suburbs.

This is not Berlin in 1970, and people don't care (for the most part) about municipal boundaries when it comes to jobs, housing, public services, and so forth.

My understanding of Florida's ideas was that areas with high concentrations of art galleries, gays, bohemians and other "creative" markers would be the most likely to attract the high knowledge and high wage "creative class." What we actually see is that this high knowledge and high wage class routinely opts for areas which offer things like low traffic congestion, attractive corporate landscapes and less costly housing. Specifically this results in the suburbs like Mississauga being more attractive to the bread and butter of "creative class" than, say, Queen West.

The latest TBT report makes much the same conclusions, that the 905 is far more "creative" and more attractive to high-tech employment.
 
The latest TBT report makes much the same conclusions, that the 905 is far more "creative" and more attractive to high-tech employment.


Yeah, but that's if you see high-tech as the be-all and end-all of creativity. It's like opting for corporate rock over punk in 1977...
 
Yeah, but that's if you see high-tech as the be-all and end-all of creativity. It's like opting for corporate rock over punk in 1977...

That is an asinine comment, and a useless simile. "High-tech" is by definition the be all and end all of creativity. If it isn't new and original, and hence creative, it can't be high-tech. Running with your empty analogy, what is punk rock this time around?
 
My understanding of Florida's ideas was that areas with high concentrations of art galleries, gays, bohemians and other "creative" markers would be the most likely to attract the high knowledge and high wage "creative class." What we actually see is that this high knowledge and high wage class routinely opts for areas which offer things like low traffic congestion, attractive corporate landscapes and less costly housing. Specifically this results in the suburbs like Mississauga being more attractive to the bread and butter of "creative class" than, say, Queen West.

The latest TBT report makes much the same conclusions, that the 905 is far more "creative" and more attractive to high-tech employment.

I read the TBT report earlier today and found it very slanted toward the "905 is awesome!" side, but whatever. Ignoring that, it still doesn't really point to Mississauga or the 905 being a beacon for creative types:

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Toronto has more young people, a higher rate of 'knowledge' employment, more jobs in the cultural (read: creative) sector, more university educated people and more young people.

All you've got on the other side is high-tech employment, but the whole Toronto area's being spanked by Waterloo in those sectors regardless.

Toronto's slow growth is troubling, but it also hints at some inherent stability to our city's economy. We're certainly not in danger of crashing like, say, Calgary could when resource conditions change.
 
That is an asinine comment, and a useless simile. "High-tech" is by definition the be all and end all of creativity. If it isn't new and original, and hence creative, it can't be high-tech. Running with your empty analogy, what is punk rock this time around?

People who don't pigeonhole Wards/Algonquin Islanders as "squatters". Get my drift?
 
Whoaccio's comment is a perfect example of someone reading into something what they want to see. The statement, "What we actually see is that this high knowledge and high wage class routinely opts for areas which offer things like low traffic congestion, attractive corporate landscapes and less costly housing" is stunningly in its thoughtlessness.

Where I work, our servers are stored somewhere in Mississauga. It is a server farm. No doubt, the jobs at that facility are classified as "high-tech", but they are more closely understood as industrial, keeping the thing running. The people who design the sites, who research the data, who decide on the architectures, none of them, in the case of my company, work in Mississauga.

"Creative" = "High tech". Hilarious. And I'm not even a believer of Florida.

The only funnier comment is "attractive corporate landscapes". Yeah, either drive to Arby's for lunch, or eat in the cafeteria. Lovely.
 
The stats presented by that chart is very interesting - in that it doesn't tell you much at all. Like Real GDP/capita and % GDP growth/capita (and the after tax versions of the same info) - it doesn't tell me anything about the "spread" of the income groups/cohorts in the two regions. Personally, I am less concerned about these averaged stats than the shrinking middle class in the inner suburban areas.

AoD
 
Archivist... One of the complaints I've read about Florida is that he uses aggregated employment statistics and puts a whole bunch of unrelated jobs together based on being in 'high tech' or financial sectors or whatever. For example. the janitor at the high tech company would be creative, but the advertising guy at GM would not be creative (no offense meant to janitors)
 
waterloo, thanks for this. I'm strongly unconvinced by Florida. His distinction of "creative" is, I think, not very relevant for the challenges that face our society.

I suppose as a lark all financial positions could be classified that way, as there has been some awfully "creative" accounting going on over the past many years.
 
Where I work, our servers are stored somewhere in Mississauga. It is a server farm. No doubt, the jobs at that facility are classified as "high-tech", but they are more closely understood as industrial, keeping the thing running. The people who design the sites, who research the data, who decide on the architectures, none of them, in the case of my company, work in Mississauga
.
Your point is that because your job has "industrial" jobs in the suburbs and the "high tech" jobs are not, the trend of higher productivity jobs migrating to the 905 is invalid? All that productivity and employment growth just doesn't exist? This is high school level argumentation, and you accuse me of manipulating statistics no less.
"Creative" = "High tech". Hilarious. And I'm not even a believer of Florida.
It is creative. Florida or no Florida. If your job involves a high level of technological sophistication and applied knowledge, you are part of the creative class. This is self evident. I at no time said that "creative=high tech", I said high tech is clearly a form of creativity. You know, "all politicians are liers, but not all liers are politicians" type stuff.
The only funnier comment is "attractive corporate landscapes". Yeah, either drive to Arby's for lunch, or eat in the cafeteria. Lovely
Sorry to break your bubble, but when most companies are looking to make more money they don't exactly consider proximity to a chic gastro-bar a priority. I thought it was self evident that by "attractive corporate landscape" I meant things like low cost, low taxes and so forth. I'm pretty sure I even prefixed "attractive corporate landscape" with those descriptions. Anyways, when was the last time you were in PATH? All the Manchu Woks and Jimmy the Greeks do great business. I don't think there is an Arby's there, but if there were I'm pretty sure it would do great business as well. Thats not even getting into the other 90% of the 416, which is basically identical in Arby's concentration to the 905.
Toronto has more young people, a higher rate of 'knowledge' employment, more jobs in the cultural (read: creative) sector, more university educated people and more young people.
And yet for all of that, we have a higher unemployment rate, a quarter of the population living beneath LICO (which I don't necessarily think is a great measurement, but whatever), about a quarter of the real GDP growth and a bit less than half the employment growth vis a vis the 905. A lot of our apparent success in fields like "knowledge employment" can be explained by the concentration UofT, York, Ryerson, the Colleges & OCAD within the 416, as well as a things like the Ontario Government. While I think that is great, it is also a bit naive to suggest that something so utterly dependent on public funding is our ticket to economic success. Ditto for the "cultural sector," the 416 clearly gets a disproportionate amount of public funding for "cultural" activities. And before someone calls me a philistine, I'm not saying that is a bad thing. Just that the Canadian Opera Company is never going to be a cash cow for the city. So the question remains for the creative class theory, why has the 416's clear advantage in "creative" jobs not lead to a corresponding increase in employment growth and productivity? Or put another way, why has the 905 succeeded in attracting new employment and fostering productivity without these "creative" amenities?
Toronto's slow growth is troubling, but it also hints at some inherent stability to our city's economy. We're certainly not in danger of crashing like, say, Calgary could when resource conditions change.
Fair enough about Calgary, but the 416 also got beat by superficially similar cities like Quebec and New York which aren't predicated on a single commodity.
 
My understanding of Florida's ideas was that areas with high concentrations of art galleries, gays, bohemians and other "creative" markers would be the most likely to attract the high knowledge and high wage "creative class." What we actually see is that this high knowledge and high wage class routinely opts for areas which offer things like low traffic congestion, attractive corporate landscapes and less costly housing. Specifically this results in the suburbs like Mississauga being more attractive to the bread and butter of "creative class" than, say, Queen West.

The latest TBT report makes much the same conclusions, that the 905 is far more "creative" and more attractive to high-tech employment.

I'm not entirely convinced by Florida's ideas, but let's play devil's advocate.

Why are, say, Mississauga and Markham attracting skilled immigrants at a rapid pace while Strongsville (suburb of Cleveland) and Livonia (suburb of Detroit) are not? Is it because of the attractiveness of the central city which creates the job and cultural opportunities?
 

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