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One has to remember that many motor vehicle drivers want to drive them like a Bat Outta Hell...


Couldn't resist, R.I.P. Marvin Lee Aday (aka Meat Loaf); September 27, 1947 – January 20, 2022.
 
No one is interested in stopping cars for not stopping at stop signs. But most of the time a yield is fine anyways, as long as they yield for pedestrians (which Toronto drivers mostly won't do, even if you have a stroller and a toddler).
Disagree, a yield sign means drivers don't even slow down unless something bigger is actually in the intersection. It's the micro transgressions, like rolling through stop signs, rolling right turns on red lights, and rolling through flashing pedestrian crossings while they're still occupied that cause a lot of problems. Why can't people just stop - it's not like you're pushing the car and need the momentum. Here's how I do it on my motorcycle - if I come to a stop sign my bike must be at a full stop, with my foot on the ground. If my foot doesn't stop on the ground, I know I've broken the law and rolled through. Cars need some means beyond eyesight and arse sensation to tell the driver that he's come to a stop, or hasn't.

Cameras like this could be installed on many stop signs.

 
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Disagree, a yield sign means drivers don't even slow down unless something bigger is actually in the intersection. It's the micro transgressions, like rolling through stop signs, rolling right turns on red lights, and rolling through flashing pedestrian crossings while they're still occupied that cause a lot of problems. Why can't people just stop - it's not like you're pushing the car and need the momentum. Here's how I do it on my motorcycle - if I come to a stop sign my bike must be at a full stop, with my foot on the ground. If my foot doesn't stop on the ground, I know I've broken the law and rolled through. Cars need some means beyond eyesight and arse sensation to tell the driver that he's come to a stop, or hasn't.

Cameras like this could be installed on many stop signs.

With icy and snowy roads, it sometimes requires using a rolling stop. Else they end up spinning their wheels, especially on inclines.
 
With icy and snowy roads, it sometimes requires using a rolling stop. Else they end up spinning their wheels, especially on inclines.
That's called problem transference. Your vehicle is ill-equipped or otherwise unable to handle the road conditions legally, that's your problem. But when you say f#ck it, I'm just not going to stop, you've now transferred your problem to everyone else. The proper solution to your problem is to equip your vehicle for the conditions, stick to roads with conditions you can legally handle, or stay off the road until conditions improve. I can't stand problem transference.
 
That's called problem transference. Your vehicle is ill-equipped or otherwise unable to handle the road conditions legally, that's your problem. But when you say f#ck it, I'm just not going to stop, you've now transferred your problem to everyone else. The proper solution to your problem is to equip your vehicle for the conditions, stick to roads with conditions you can legally handle, or stay off the road until conditions improve. I can't stand problem transference.
In Europe, there are more yield than stop signs for that reason. Generally speaking, vision zero started in Europe. Guess where it is safer?
 
In Europe, there are more yield than stop signs for that reason. Generally speaking, vision zero started in Europe. Guess where it is safer?
It works better where the drivers are more disciplined and less likely to run over pedestrians to get to their destination 10 seconds sooner.

Guess where we lie on that spectrum.

Also, correlation =/= causation.
 
Disagree, a yield sign means drivers don't even slow down unless something bigger is actually in the intersection. It's the micro transgressions, like rolling through stop signs, rolling right turns on red lights, and rolling through flashing pedestrian crossings while they're still occupied that cause a lot of problems. Why can't people just stop - it's not like you're pushing the car and need the momentum. Here's how I do it on my motorcycle - if I come to a stop sign my bike must be at a full stop, with my foot on the ground. If my foot doesn't stop on the ground, I know I've broken the law and rolled through. Cars need some means beyond eyesight and arse sensation to tell the driver that he's come to a stop, or hasn't.

Cameras like this could be installed on many stop signs.

What is required by law does not necessarily correlate with what is safe.

Do you have any actual direct quantitative/statistical evidence that rolling stops cause accidents?
 
I have to agree with The Admiral on this. Given the prevailing attitude and skill level of most drivers these days, I'd be surprised if you you find a majority who know what the sign actually means and what their responsibilities are.. I lived in a small town that had more yield than stop signs, and it worked reasonably well, but everybody knew the drill, the town was relatively flat with good sight lines and virtually no on-street parking.
 
I have to agree with The Admiral on this. Given the prevailing attitude and skill level of most drivers these days, I'd be surprised if you you find a majority who know what the sign actually means and what their responsibilities are.. I lived in a small town that had more yield than stop signs, and it worked reasonably well, but everybody knew the drill, the town was relatively flat with good sight lines and virtually no on-street parking.

And then there are towns in the US that don’t put any signs of any type at backstreet intersections… there are rules for that (it becomes a 4-way yield), and the locals know them, but it takes getting used to.

There are often multiple decision points at a stop or yield sign. I see so many motorists who ignore the yield-to-pedestrian yield point (which is usually the one with the regulatory white line, or at minimum the plane of a sidewalk) and make their stop at the last possible point into the intersectio, presumably because they need to move that far forward to see if the cross street is clear. This puts pedestrians at a disadvantage - for their own safety they yield to the moving vehicle where in the law it should be the motorist yielding to them, a bit of a game of chicken which benefits the in-a-hurry driver.

I suspect that as self driving vehicles advance, the argument will be made that they can actually detect and respond to intersections better than human drivers, and for reasons of vehicle throughput and fuel consumption they should be allowed to roll through controlled intersections when they detect that the way is clear. (If you watch youtube, many AV’s are pretty aggressive at yellow lights… because the computer has a much more accurate calculation of stopping distance and time remaining on the yellow than a human driver can accomplish). But for humans, the rhythm of coming to a complete stop, taking a moment to judge the pedestrian environment, then advancing to the threshold and checking vehicular conflict, is a whole lot safer and error-minimising.

Yield signs enable split second decisionmaking and bad habits… I would say they are more risk than benefit right now.

- Paul
 
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