[W. K. Lis]

EVERYTHING is (potentially) dangerous; one needs to evaluate based on whether it (or similar locations) have been dangerous in practice. God knows, we have enough locations in the city which see actual 'situations' to keep us busy 'fixing them' for decades before we start to worry about others that MIGHT be dangerous. For example: we all seem to like wide sidewalks but the wider the sidewalk the more chance there is for a vehicle to use it as a 'road' and mow down pedestrians; like most things in life one needs to evaluate and all I suggested here was that the 'history' of this location be examined. It has existed like this for decades, have there been any actual problems?

Since the 1950's, the streets in North America were being designed for the automobiles and trucks, not the pedestrian snor cyclists, in mind. Only recently, have the pedestrians and cyclists finally been considered. The current "new" suburban streets have been designed for the "safety" of vehicles going OVER the posted speed limit, not AT or below the posted speed limit, for example. Forcing the motorists to slow down and actually observe their surroundings is needed.

 

[crs1026]

EVERYTHING is (potentially) dangerous; one needs to evaluate based on whether it (or similar locations) have been dangerous in practice. God knows, we have enough locations in the city which see actual 'situations' to keep us busy 'fixing them' for decades before we start to worry about others that MIGHT be dangerous. For example: we all seem to like wide sidewalks but the wider the sidewalk the more chance there is for a vehicle to use it as a 'road' and mow down pedestrians; like most things in life one needs to evaluate and all I suggested here was that the 'history' of this location be examined. It has existed like this for decades, have there been any actual problems?

This is why I pedantically go back to the data that we have in Vision Zero documentation on injury locations. The last data that was published says that 6% of pedestrian-struck incidents are right turns at intersections.The TPS Data portal does not indicate that there has ever been a pedestrian incident at this specific location, since 2016 anyways. But, as noted, it's typical of many corners in our city.

We can do what's sensible to adjust the intersection, but one can only do so much about narrow sidewalks on our older streets. I do think we need to insist on wider setbacks at intersections when new buildings are constructed, but many corners have buildings that don't enable this... and some may be heritage protected.

Adding a bollard was suggested. Maybe it's just because it's February, but I wonder how many more items we can add to sidewalks before clearing snow off of them becomes impossible. I would go in the other direction and look for how many objects (planters, poles, mailboxes, store signs, etc) we can remove in the interest of clearer sightlines and clearing snow better/faster after snow falls..

Building out the corner makes sense where there is room to do so, but in the drawing above it puts the standing space out of alignment with the crosswalks, and puts the standee right out in the most exposed location. So again I'm not sure it's a universal solution.

It's complicated.

- Paul

 

[Admiral Beez]

He replied, very fast, to say that he had nit had any complaints and having no sidewalks along-side parks was common.

I had to read that in Groundskeeper Willie's accent to make it sound right.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Renewing Overlea Boulevard: What’s Proposed​

From link.

The City of Toronto is proposing changes along the following areas along Overlea Boulevard.

1. Don Mills Road, Overlea Road and Gateway Boulevard intersection
2. Overlea Bridge
3. West of Overlea Bridge to Thorncliffe Park Drive
4. Thorncliffe Park Drive east & Overlea Boulevard intersection

• Sidewalks are proposed to be widened to 2.1 meters, to make it easier to walk together, and to allow people with mobility devices to pass each other safely.
• New bikeways such as cycle tracks or multi-use trails are proposed to connect existing cycling routes in the area.
• Traffic signals would be coordinated and timed to enhance safety for everyone, while minimizing delay to buses, people driving, emergency vehicles and trucks.

The City is looking at two options at the intersection of Don Mills Road & Overlea Road/Gateway Boulevard. The following changes are being proposed:

• Cycle tracks would be added with dedicated space for people cycling to cross and wait, with physical separation continued to the intersection
• Multi-use trail would be added southward along Don Mills Road to connect to the Lower Don Access Trail
• Safety enhancements would be added to all intersections, such as renewed pavement markings, prohibited vehicle turns, and signal timing that separates the movements of vulnerable road users from vehicles.

Cross Section of Overlea bridge with two sidewalks being 2.5m wide, two cycle tracks being 2.4m wide, two HOV lanes being 3.45m wide, two vehicle lanes being 3.3m wide.

The City is recommending Option 2 because it would provide a more defined separation between the uses, slightly wider sidewalks and cycle tracks.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Renewing Overlea Boulevard: What’s Proposed​

From link.

Cross Section of Overlea bridge with two sidewalks being 2.5m wide, two cycle tracks being 2.4m wide, two HOV lanes being 3.45m wide, two vehicle lanes being 3.3m wide.

The City is recommending Option 2 because it would provide a more defined separation between the uses, slightly wider sidewalks and cycle tracks.

1. Where will the sewer grates be located? On the road traffic side away from the pedestrians and cyclists, or draining under the barriers?
2. Need something similar on Millwood Road/Leaside Bridge. Else we'll need pedestrian and cyclist paths incorporated in the Ontario Line bridge over the Don Valley.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Bay and College again!

Woman, 80, dies after being struck and trapped under vehicle in Toronto

The driver remained on the scene. Toronto Police say there are road closures in the area, which are expected to be in place for some time.

toronto.citynews.ca

AoD

 

[Admiral Beez]

Renewing Overlea Boulevard: What’s Proposed​

From link.

Cross Section of Overlea bridge with two sidewalks being 2.5m wide, two cycle tracks being 2.4m wide, two HOV lanes being 3.45m wide, two vehicle lanes being 3.3m wide.

The City is recommending Option 2 because it would provide a more defined separation between the uses, slightly wider sidewalks and cycle tracks.

IMO it‘s what’s at the ends of the bridge that matters. Does this connect to a network of protected bike lanes or is this an orphan project switching to at best some painted lines In the gutter?

 

[W. K. Lis]

Guess Toronto is not a first class city...

Hate it when there are left turn signals and there is nobody turning left. Equally worse are where pedestrians coming up to a traffic signal where the pedestrian signals don't turn on because the pedestrian did not consciously press a button. For autos, they just have to stand over the sensors in road to turn on the signals. No such sensors in Toronto (they are available in the rest of the world, not Canada it seems).

 

[W. K. Lis]

Used to be that pedestrians could walk with the full green traffic signal, the amber signal would mean pedestrians should not attempt to cross but complete the walk. The red traffic applied to both cars and pedestrians, do not walk.

Then the pedestrian signals came along. It would turn to the "DON'T WALK" at the same time as the amber traffic light. Then came the flashing "DON'T WALK" while the traffic signal remained green. Then came along the countdown timer, along with the made up rule that pedestrian are forboden to enter, even while the traffic signal is green (which was magically transformed into a "motor vehicle" traffic signal only). Watch out if someone is caught when it's a non-flashing "DON'T WALK" but the traffic signal is amber. Sometimes the pedestrian signal does not appear, because they forgot to press the magic pedestrian signal button. Have seen sometimes the pedestrian "WALK" signal appearing a second or two before the green traffic signal, but only recently.

The duration for pedestrian signals has gotten short and shorter and none at all. Toronto, and Ontario, has become a second class city for pedestrians, compared to other parts of the world.

 

[DSC]

Used to be that pedestrians could walk with the full green traffic signal, the amber signal would mean pedestrians should not attempt to cross but complete the walk. The red traffic applied to both cars and pedestrians, do not walk.

Then the pedestrian signals came along. It would turn to the "DON'T WALK" at the same time as the amber traffic light. Then came the flashing "DON'T WALK" while the traffic signal remained green. Then came along the countdown timer, along with the made up rule that pedestrian are forboden to enter, even while the traffic signal is green (which was magically transformed into a "motor vehicle" traffic signal only). Watch out if someone is caught when it's a non-flashing "DON'T WALK" but the traffic signal is amber. Sometimes the pedestrian signal does not appear, because they forgot to press the magic pedestrian signal button. Have seen sometimes the pedestrian "WALK" signal appearing a second or two before the green traffic signal, but only recently.

The duration for pedestrian signals has gotten short and shorter and none at all. Toronto, and Ontario, has become a second class city for pedestrians, compared to other parts of the world.

Actually, the City has increased (at least some) pedestrian allowed times and seems to be converting all pedestrian lights so they give pedestrians a short 'head start' before any traffic is supposed to move. I do agree that it is VERY confusing when some intersections with pedestrian signals require one to press the button to turn them on and some do not.

 

[crs1026]

Actually, the City has increased (at least some) pedestrian allowed times and seems to be converting all pedestrian lights so they give pedestrians a short 'head start' before any traffic is supposed to move. I do agree that it is VERY confusing when some intersections with pedestrian signals require one to press the button to turn them on and some do not.

I’m impressed by how quickly the “head start” is being phased in. But there has been virtually no communication to the public about it. Even City Councillors don’t seem inclined to talk about it in their newsletters. Many (most?) pedestrians still focus on the auto green/yellow rather than the pedestrian signalling, which seems to be ignored or treated as a decorative peripheral.

I have a pet peeve with intersections where the pedestrian counter counts down to zero but then resets (presumably because no stopped car is detected on the cross direction) to walk and counts again. That encourages pedestrians to disbelieve the countdown indication and cross anyways. Maybe the signals should wait until a car is detected and only then start a countdown.

And then there’s the beg button at the crosswalk at Grenview and Bloor, that waits a minute or longer to respond. No amount of complaining to the City seems to change that. So many pedestrians assume it’s broken and cross against a Don’t Walk indication. Even after a long wait, they usually make it across before the light changes.

- Paul

 

[lenaitch]

I’m impressed by how quickly the “head start” is being phased in. But there has been virtually no communication to the public about it. Even City Councillors don’t seem inclined to talk about it in their newsletters. Many (most?) pedestrians still focus on the auto green/yellow rather than the pedestrian signalling, which seems to be ignored or treated as a decorative peripheral.

I have a pet peeve with intersections where the pedestrian counter counts down to zero but then resets (presumably because no stopped car is detected on the cross direction) to walk and counts again. That encourages pedestrians to disbelieve the countdown indication and cross anyways. Maybe the signals should wait until a car is detected and only then start a countdown.

And then there’s the beg button at the crosswalk at Grenview and Bloor, that waits a minute or longer to respond. No amount of complaining to the City seems to change that. So many pedestrians assume it’s broken and cross against a Don’t Walk indication. Even after a long wait, they usually make it across before the light changes.

- Paul

I think the reasons you, and touched on by Lis, are the reason many pedestrians have either become confused or lost confidence in the pedestrian signals. At least the red-amber-green traffic ('motor vehicle) signal is comparatively consistent. Pedestrian signals that change in lock-step with the main signal, some that are button-only activated, countdowns that countdown to . . . more walking? How many times have many of us seen a pedestrian walk up to an intersection, not push the button and simply stand there during a green cycle because the pedestrian signal didn't change.

 

[Admiral Beez]

Renewing Overlea Boulevard: What’s Proposed​

From link.

Cross Section of Overlea bridge with two sidewalks being 2.5m wide, two cycle tracks being 2.4m wide, two HOV lanes being 3.45m wide, two vehicle lanes being 3.3m wide.

The City is recommending Option 2 because it would provide a more defined separation between the uses, slightly wider sidewalks and cycle tracks.

What's planned at either end of this bridge? I fear it's going to be an orphaned island of ideal cycle infrastructure with nothing but paint once off the bridge.

 

[11th]

Used to be that pedestrians could walk with the full green traffic signal, the amber signal would mean pedestrians should not attempt to cross but complete the walk. The red traffic applied to both cars and pedestrians, do not walk.

Then the pedestrian signals came along. It would turn to the "DON'T WALK" at the same time as the amber traffic light. Then came the flashing "DON'T WALK" while the traffic signal remained green. Then came along the countdown timer, along with the made up rule that pedestrian are forboden to enter, even while the traffic signal is green (which was magically transformed into a "motor vehicle" traffic signal only). Watch out if someone is caught when it's a non-flashing "DON'T WALK" but the traffic signal is amber. Sometimes the pedestrian signal does not appear, because they forgot to press the magic pedestrian signal button. Have seen sometimes the pedestrian "WALK" signal appearing a second or two before the green traffic signal, but only recently.

The duration for pedestrian signals has gotten short and shorter and none at all. Toronto, and Ontario, has become a second class city for pedestrians, compared to other parts of the world.

Each municipality has a different set up.
In Toronto. the flashing hand comes on when the countdown begins, steady hand comes on at amber light. In Hamilton, the steady hand comes on at red light.
In some other municipalities, the countdown appears throughout the walking and flashing hand phase.

 

[nfitz]

Each municipality has a different set up.
In Toronto. the flashing hand comes on when the countdown begins, steady hand comes on at amber light. In Hamilton, the steady hand comes on at red light.

At the same time, I've seen intersections where the pedestrian crossing time now starts while the lights are red in all directions. Though that would be safer if they banned turns on red lights.

Indeed, every city is different. Parts of Montreal now have pedestrian lights that go to flashing red, instead of solid red - perhaps to increase the visibility? First time I saw them, crossing quite a narrow street, I assumed that it was the equivalent to flashing yellow ...I quickly discovered that wasn't true while in the middle of the street.