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Admiral Beez
Superstar
Another pedestrian killed by a turning construction truck.
www.cp24.com
I propose an immediate fix. Every Class A and D vehicle (tractor trailers, cement trucks, dump trucks, etc.) and oversized vehicles must have a flag man onboard who must alight and walk in front of the truck whenever turning from or onto any road with speed limit of 50 kph or less. The developers and trucking firms can cover the cost of the extra man. It’s what we used to do.
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I propose an immediate fix. Every Class A and D vehicle (tractor trailers, cement trucks, dump trucks, etc.) and oversized vehicles must have a flag man onboard who must alight and walk in front of the truck whenever turning from or onto any road with speed limit of 50 kph or less. The developers and trucking firms can cover the cost of the extra man. It’s what we used to do.
Northern Light
Superstar
There's a voluminous report to the next meeting of I & E ctte on the subject of Vision Zero initiatives. Lots of words, and lots of actions do not necessarily align.
crs1026
Superstar
My impression upon reading the report is that Vision Zero has distilled (eroded?) to only two or three major thrusts - which is disappointing programmatically but probably a useful reality check on what we can expect of City staff given funding, workload, and the complicated network of agencies and departments required to get thing done. The original Vision Zero program advocated doing more things at once - maybe the ambition and passion was never well matched to the resource network. A marathon not a sprint, it seems.
It seems that the only sure thing is speed control measures. That's something, although it's a bit of crawl until we get more acceptance for other alternative solutions.
The glaring weak point to me is - Enforcement. It's apparent that automated devices are bogged down in a fairly complicated set of legalities and policies that have led to fairly limited implementation, while the Police are fending off pressure for hands-on enforcement by creating a too-small token dedicated unit that will look good but not write enough tickets to make a difference.
I do see more police enforcement out there than previously, but it's always in the same locations that are most convenient for the police officer but not necessarily driven by risk or severity. Policing has become such a high-cost, labour-intensive proposition that it may no longer be a useful tool.... we really need a better solution to this.
Stepping back, I wonder if we need to refresh what the data is saying about the causes of fatalities and injuries - have any of the high risk scenarios actually improved? The data presented (Figure 3 in the document) shows KSI per 100,000 population - to have held the rate of pedestrian KSI down, in spite of growing numbers of people actually seems encouraging. I wonder whether that population is leading to more miles driven, more traffic on our roads, and how specific scenarios (mid block casualties, left turn casualties, pedestrians at intersections etc) might be changing.
My personal observation is that city traffic is mellowing and care shown yielding to pedestrians is going up.... not dramatically, but perhaps incrementally. The really egregious behaviour seems to be out on the 400 highways. Just one person's opinion.
- Paul
Northern Light
Superstar
The Vision Zero item I noted above was before Committee today, and was adopted with an amendment from Cllr Saxe, which I will post below, in its entirety:
I broadly agree w/the above w/the exception of item 3; as I feel the last thing we need to do is waste staff time writing yet another report. Some periodic updates on whether a program is effective are fine;
However, they should be narrow such as to clearly measure the impact of a program against its core objection. For Vision Zero, that is clearly reducing/eliminating serious injuries and deaths, particularly of pedestrians and cyclists
resulting from collisions w/automobiles/trucks.
Once every three years would be fine.
I broadly agree w/the above w/the exception of item 3; as I feel the last thing we need to do is waste staff time writing yet another report. Some periodic updates on whether a program is effective are fine;
However, they should be narrow such as to clearly measure the impact of a program against its core objection. For Vision Zero, that is clearly reducing/eliminating serious injuries and deaths, particularly of pedestrians and cyclists
resulting from collisions w/automobiles/trucks.
Once every three years would be fine.
Admiral Beez
Superstar
Yet another Torontonian struck and killed by a construction vehicle.
www.cp24.com
I still believe that no construction truck should be able to turn on any urban street marked 50 kph or less without a flag man having to get out and guide the truck.
Toronto, Canada & Global Breaking News – CP24
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I still believe that no construction truck should be able to turn on any urban street marked 50 kph or less without a flag man having to get out and guide the truck.
crs1026
Superstar
Yet another Torontonian struck and killed by a construction vehicle.
Toronto, Canada & Global Breaking News – CP24
Most recent News News business news stories and video from CP24
I still believe that no construction truck should be able to turn on any urban street marked 50 kph or less without a flag man having to get out and guide the truck.
The press report suggests this was a left turn at a major intersection situation. I can’t see that as a flaggable turn, although I agree that there are many situations where a flagperson might be a good idea.
We will have to wait and see what charges if any are laid.
- Paul
lenaitch
Senior Member
^^ Besides, how do you differentiate between a construction vehicle and, say, a cartage truck. There also might a little snag surrounding the fact that they are essentially a pedestrian on the roadway, directing traffic.
just east of the creek
Active Member
In reading the report NL posted earlier, I noted there is almost no consideration for All Way Stop Control in Toronto. And we have another pedestrian killed in a vehicle turning incident with crossing pedestrians.
I have mentioned this before and will again. I would be moving swiftly to implement a. Montreal Model I see at so many intersections on that city. First of all, there are NO right turns on a red, and secondly, and as important, there is a period of All Way Stop for all vehicles in all directions, allowing pedestrians, cyclists to cross in any direction. The process of crossing an intersection, making a turn is far more calmer and controlled and safer with these rules in place. I have a great deal of respect and sympathy for most of those heavy truck drivers working within the city, providing services we all want. And rules, such as the above, protect drivers as well, from themselves and from others.
I am a car driver but we simply have to get past this manly machismo car first society we live in - pedestrian and cyclists first, transit second, all else third.
I have mentioned this before and will again. I would be moving swiftly to implement a. Montreal Model I see at so many intersections on that city. First of all, there are NO right turns on a red, and secondly, and as important, there is a period of All Way Stop for all vehicles in all directions, allowing pedestrians, cyclists to cross in any direction. The process of crossing an intersection, making a turn is far more calmer and controlled and safer with these rules in place. I have a great deal of respect and sympathy for most of those heavy truck drivers working within the city, providing services we all want. And rules, such as the above, protect drivers as well, from themselves and from others.
I am a car driver but we simply have to get past this manly machismo car first society we live in - pedestrian and cyclists first, transit second, all else third.
Admiral Beez
Superstar
An illegal left turn as well, as Duff and Eg is signed no lefts.
just east of the creek
Active Member
I stand corrected. Not sure if I read, heard or just imagined the fatality occurring in the rh turn situation.
i believe my comments are still valid, maybe even more so if this was an illegal left hand turn. Safety of pedestrians and cyclists must be paramount,
And i’ll be curious what charges are laid?
crs1026
Superstar
There's definitely a risk where large vehicles in a hurry intrude into pedestrian zones. But the solution you propose is a bit impractical in some situations, so I can't see it being doable. Asking all large trucks to be staffed with a flagperson is beyond affordability, and getting out and flagging at major intersections may present more danger to the flagperson than to pedestrians, as they will have to position themselves in even more risky locations to do the flagging.
Flagpersons or spotters may need a bigger role, especially in confined locations. I can see enlarging the "no backing or turning without a spotter" somewhat, just not universally.
I wonder about other changes. One example - suppose the management of a construction project is liable for the behaviour of all vehicles supporting the construction project, whether employees, subcontractors, or whatever. Another might be changing the rules of the road to make construction vehicles give way more broadly.... my perception of construction flagging is, the vehicles and flagpeople assume a fairly broad right to stop auto traffic or take priority over sidewalk traffic. The law may allow this at present, maybe it shouldn't.
Dump trucks are conspicuous as "being in a hurry" but lots of other commercial vehicles - not necessarily oversize - are also. Transport trucks generally have outgrown the geometry of our streets, but one would have to see data about what types of vehicles are most frequently involved in contact with pedestrians or cyclists. Maybe vehicles over x,000 kg have a higher demerit points threshold.... or licenses should be harder to earn.
I agree with your passion, this particular incident may just have a different fact base and different root causes, so it's not necessarily a good one to cite for what you are proposing
- Paul
Mount Dennis Resident
Active Member
A new study from
@IIHS_autosafety
: "Vehicles with hoods more than 40 inches off the ground... were 44–45 percent more likely to cause pedestrian fatalities than those with... hood heights of 30 inches or less."
@IIHS_autosafety
: "Vehicles with hoods more than 40 inches off the ground... were 44–45 percent more likely to cause pedestrian fatalities than those with... hood heights of 30 inches or less."
tiffer24
Senior Member
Oh well, there's nothing anyone can do about this carnage.
Toronto Police say multiple pedestrians were struck by a vehicle in the city’s east end on Wednesday, and at least two suffered life-threatening injuries. Police said the pedestrian-involved collision happened in an apartment building parking lot at around 12:40 p.m. in the Victoria Park Avenue and Cassandra Boulevard area, just north of Lawrence Avenue.
Paramedics told Global News just after 1 p.m. that at least three people were transported to a hospital with “possibly more” victims. Two women were taken to hospital in critical life-threatening condition. A third person was taken in critical but non-life-threatening condition, paramedics said.
https://globalnews.ca/news/10093366...EqEAgAKgcICjCs0oULMM3-ggM&utm_content=rundown
Toronto Police say multiple pedestrians were struck by a vehicle in the city’s east end on Wednesday, and at least two suffered life-threatening injuries. Police said the pedestrian-involved collision happened in an apartment building parking lot at around 12:40 p.m. in the Victoria Park Avenue and Cassandra Boulevard area, just north of Lawrence Avenue.
Paramedics told Global News just after 1 p.m. that at least three people were transported to a hospital with “possibly more” victims. Two women were taken to hospital in critical life-threatening condition. A third person was taken in critical but non-life-threatening condition, paramedics said.
https://globalnews.ca/news/10093366...EqEAgAKgcICjCs0oULMM3-ggM&utm_content=rundown
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txlseries4
New Member
Story updated, headline now reads