evandyk
Senior Member
TTC stops especially need much better clearing. Any time you get more than a few cm of snow it gets basically impossible for anybody not completely able-bodied to board a streetcar/bus.
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- Thread starter salsa
- Start date
Mount Dennis Resident
Active Member
Sent to VisionZeroTO@toronto.ca
Meanwhile, in the referenced neighbourhood...
There are coyotes in the neighbourhood.
Admiral Beez
Superstar
If the corners aren't defended/hardened, vehicles will just turn onto or over these bulb outs.
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afransen
Senior Member
Interesting exploration about the differences in transportation management in NL vs NA, and the history that lead to the current approaches in each jurisdiction. Kind of showing how road safety is an emergent property of how the professions are structured, regulated and incentivized.
allengeorge
Senior Member
In The Star today:
www.thestar.com
City is proposing move to administrative (as opposed to judicial) system for speeding tickets in anticipation of speed camera program expansion. This will also support any further expansions around “don’t block the box” enforcement as well as (one may hope!) the King Street Transit Corridor enforcement.
Toronto paves the way for more photo radar with a plan to streamline ticketing
Moving ticket disputes from the courts to an administrative penalty system will speed up appeals from drivers, while allowing Toronto to deploy more automated enforcement devices, says a new city report.
www.thestar.com
City is proposing move to administrative (as opposed to judicial) system for speeding tickets in anticipation of speed camera program expansion. This will also support any further expansions around “don’t block the box” enforcement as well as (one may hope!) the King Street Transit Corridor enforcement.
crs1026
Superstar
^Photo radar and automated enforcement generally might have more traction if the practice of covering license plates is discouraged more.
I would like to see this delegated to municipalities so that parked cars can be ticketed for improper display of license plates.
I can appreciate why police officers would not waste their time and safety to pull over a driver just because the plate was obscured.
While the driver (and not the owner) may be argued to be the one who should be held accountable for vehicle condition, we have pretty much gone past that argument with traffic enforcement generally -and license plate display is not really a moving violation. So give it to Parking Control Officers to enforce.
- Paul
I would like to see this delegated to municipalities so that parked cars can be ticketed for improper display of license plates.
I can appreciate why police officers would not waste their time and safety to pull over a driver just because the plate was obscured.
While the driver (and not the owner) may be argued to be the one who should be held accountable for vehicle condition, we have pretty much gone past that argument with traffic enforcement generally -and license plate display is not really a moving violation. So give it to Parking Control Officers to enforce.
- Paul
evandyk
Senior Member
Because in many cases, the person driving the car with obscured plates is likely to be another cop?
lenaitch
Senior Member
Number plate violations are not 'moving violations'. It's do-able now under the HTA *if* the enforcement person is sworn as a Provincial Offences Officer; otherwise it would take some legislative tweaks. One of which would be allowing a non-parking violation to be included in the type of offence notice (aka 'ticket') that is slipped under the wiper. Right now, that is restricted to parking violations. All do-able with the right motivation.
It think number plate violations most appropriately befalls to the owner. The number plate is evidence of registration and title; it's you vehicle and you configured it in a certain way and, if appliable, allowed it to be used on a highway. The difference you are proposing simply changes the scenario from one of being found operating on a highway to simply being found on a highway.
lenaitch
Senior Member
Number plate violations are not 'moving violations'. It's do-able now under the HTA *if* the enforcement person is sworn as a Provincial Offences Officer; otherwise it would take some legislative tweaks. One of which would be allowing a non-parking violation to be included in the type of offence notice (aka 'ticket') that is slipped under the wiper. Right now, that is restricted to parking violations. All do-able with the right motivation.
It think number plate violations most appropriately befalls to the owner. The number plate is evidence of registration and title; it's you vehicle and you configured it in a certain way and, if appliable, allowed it to be used on a highway. The difference you are proposing simply changes the scenario from one of being found operating on a highway to simply being found on a highway.
innsertnamehere
Superstar
Police are hawks looking for obstructed plates in one location in Ontario - the 407. There is a reason for that.
crs1026
Superstar
Not a bad reason, but there are better ones.
I would put enforcing accountability for driving infractions such as speed and red light compliance higher on the priority list than toll avoidance. The speed and red light cameras need the data even more.
- Paul
allengeorge
Senior Member
As automated enforcement increases, we will see more plate obstruction. And, unless police actually do anything about it, the practice will increase.
In NYC tolling, speed enforcement, red light cameras and ASP are all based on unobscured plates. Of course, people don’t want to pay, so you have people using:
* Fake temp tags
* Obscured license plates (license plate covers are legal to buy, but not use - so…guess how well that social construct works)
* Fake plates
* Use of out-of-state plates that may/may not be valid
* Purposely ‘dirty’ plates
Supposedly there are rules governing all of this, but the police don’t enforce anything. As @evandyk points out, the going theory is that it’s because a significant number of the violators are the police personnel themselves (anecdotally, a number of people have taken it on themselves to track down violators on a case-by-case basis and found cases of this).
I happen to believe that if you have fake plates, missing plates or license plate covers your car should be booted, and you need to pay a fee to get the boot off and drive anywhere. And, I also think that this enforcement can’t be trusted to the police. Given history, it’s clear road safety is way down on their priority list.
lenaitch
Senior Member
The HTA regulates the conduct of vehicles in the public space. It would take different legislation, including federal legislation, to regulate trade. Then there's the Internet.
Who would you entrust it to?
allengeorge
Senior Member
I understand. That’s why I think that federal legislation is often necessary in cases like this (I’ve made the same point wrt. E-bike batteries and chargers is a separate thread.)
You often can’t rely on restrictions on use, because people will just ignore those constraints; far more efficient to just restrict purchase and heavily penalize sellers or platforms. Yes, a number will circumvent those, but it’ll be a lot smaller.
crs1026
Superstar
I'm not so sure this is workable. I sure don't want the customs officers at the border feeling the need to pop more trunks in case someone is smuggling in aftermarket car parts. That may be desirable when they suspect drug or weapons smuggling, but there are limits.
The issue in enforcement is not police being "untrustable" - it's the reality that they are too busy. And traffic stops are generally unsafe, so police officers have to make decisions whether the risk and time and paperwork is appropriate for the offence. That's why I would like to see license plate enforcement handed off to others, not as a slight to the police but to recognize the realities of what they can and can't attend to.
If an officer stops a driver for some other offence, and observes that the license plate is obscured, I would hope they would add that to their agenda, but stopping cars just for the license plate is an unreasonable expectation.
- Paul