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There is still a distressing tendency to eliminate all those wonderful separations where they are most needed: intersections. A lot of bike lanes and even cycle tracks end in turn lanes.

This is true; but its also a profound challenge, removing the turn lanes, unless the turns are restricted, can result in significantly more congestion. Opposition to the Bloor lanes in Bloor West Village and beyond is one step removed from white hot. I'm not sure one can resolve that predicament in many places, in the near term.

In most cases, parking is already gone on both sides of any intersection approach.

I think we have to get traffic volumes down in order to consider some of these issues.

In some cases we may be able to squeeze a bit more room out by re-profiling the traffic lanes, but if they're a truck route or have transit, that can be a challenge.

*****

Something we really don't see here is a linkage between changes such as cycle tracks and increased transit service. There's no linkage to TTC on that, nor, similarly for the Gardiner work and GO's LSW line. It would be logical, I would think, if know you need to free up, for argument's sake, 20% of capacity, to boost service and market the hell out of it.
 
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This is true; but its also a profound challenge, removing the turn lanes, unless the turns are restricted, can result in significantly more congestion. Opposition to the Bloor lanes in Bloor West Village and beyond is one step removed from white hot. I'm not sure one can resolve that predicament in many places, in the near term.

With respect to Bloor West - While I may provoke a reaction by saying this (and to be clear, I'm not arguing against the Bloor bike lanes, although clearly most of my neighbours are) I think it's important to do a lessons learned and recognize just how far we are pushing the envelope with this change , and maybe we do need to regroup and do things differently next time.

I think we have to get traffic volumes down in order to consider some of these issues.

Respectfully, in the case of Bloor West I don't see that happening - ever. There certainly hasn't been any intervention that would enable lower vehicular volumes in a built form that remains autocentric. Densification is still in the future along Bloor and thru the central west end. Solutions that assume lower traffic volumes may be a bit wishful.

I would love to see traffic counts for Bloor West - I do suspect that the plan has underestimated just how much vehicular traffic has been choked, and how much travel times have changed. (I like how the traffic on Bloor has calmed, but the pure empirical impact on flow and throughput may be more than expected). Perhaps some simple refinements would make things better.....for instance Bloor and South Kingsway has suddenly become a gridlock zone, I wonder if changing the traffic light cycles would improve that. The point is, the pain points are real.

What we may be underestimating is just how big a change in cognition and driving behaviour these changes are for many drivers. Some of that is overdue, but much new learning is required and habits need to be changed. It is a far trickier task to make a right turn while checking blind spots for bike lanes that have parked cars between the driver and the bike lane. Changes in signage take time to adapt; personally I am convinced that we are pushing the limit of how many lights and signs a driver can process at unfamiliar intersections. On Bloor, the implementation of no-right-turn-on-red was haphazard and not well thought out or communicated.... maybe this type of change has to be done more systemmatically so drivers learn faster and encounter fewer one-of intersection patterns.

Something we really don't see here is a linkage between changes such as cycle tracks and increased transit service. There's no linkage to TTC on that, nor, similarly for the Gardiner work and GO's LSW line. It would be logical, I would think, if know you need to free up, for argument's sake, 20% of capacity, to boost service and market the hell out of it.

Again respectfully, that's fair as a bit of logic, but one might ask - what possible greater linkage to transit could there be than putting bike lanes on a street that has a subway line running under it ?

One more time, to be clear, I'm not griping about the bike lanes, I support them. But we really are creating backlash out here. I would resist the urge to be defensive or dogmatic about that, maybe we need to step back and ask what can be done differently, and be a bit harder on ourselves.

- Paul
 
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With respect to Bloor West - While I may provoke a reaction by saying this (and to be clear, I'm not arguing against the Bloor bike lanes, although clearly most of my neighbours are) I think it's important to do a lessons learned and recognize just how far we are pushing the envelope with this change , and maybe we do need to regroup and do things differently next time.

There's always room for improvement, and broadly, I support the idea that there should more focus on infilling the network of cycle tracks adjacent to areas where critical mass ridership is being achieved and growing it out from there as oppose to isolated cycle tracks in areas with low ridership.

However, some of this work is tied to road resurfacing and reconstruction, opportunities that may only come along every 20 years or less, so in such cases it makes sense to take advantage of the opportunity when it arises rather than either defer the work for 20+ years or come back and dig up what we just did.

This is the argument for Kingston Road as part of Danforth-Kingston btw, that the road is getting a major resurfacing........so now's the time.

Respectfully, in the case of Bloor West I don't see that happening - ever. There certainly hasn't been any intervention that would enable lower vehicular volumes in a built form that remains autocentric. Densification is still in the future along Bloor and thru the central west end. Solutions that assume lower traffic volumes may be a bit wishful.

Ever seems like a long time, Paul.

Lets agree that radical change is difficult in this respect, but I think if you look at a similar areas, say Greektown in the east end, An area, I walk, transit to, and drive to with some frequency........

I can report that traffic volumes on Danforth do seem down a little bit, and that people are switching to bikes, in particular. I've counted at the Danforth/Pape intersection, EB in evening rush hour, and seen 9 cars queue by the time the light turned green, beside them six cyclists.

You would not have seen that 5 years ago, I'll guarantee. But its more complicated than just putting in a bike lane. Its the network of cycle tracks/bike lanes, its the prevalence of Bikeshare, its number of local supermarkets, its the frequency of local surface transit and so on.

I'll take up some specifics down below.

I would love to see traffic counts for Bloor West - I do suspect that the plan has underestimated just how much vehicular traffic has been choked, and how much travel times have changed. (I like how the traffic on Bloor has calmed, but the pure empirical impact on flow and throughput may be more than expected). Perhaps some simple refinements would make things better.....for instance Bloor and South Kingsway has suddenly become a gridlock zone, I wonder if changing the traffic light cycles would improve that. The point is, the pain points are real.

I don't doubt this, and have no problem with the idea of getting hard data.

Again respectfully, that's fair as a bit of logic, but one might ask - what possible greater linkage to transit could there be than putting bike lanes on a street that has a subway line running under it ?

You're right that on paper its a good candidate area, but above, I offered the example of Greektown, where I've seen significant modal shift the last few years. I highlighted a few things above, let's try to tie those into specifics.

a) Cycling Network: How do you go N-S as a cyclist near Bloor West? There are no full cycling facilities so far as I'm aware on Kipling, Islington, Jane, South Kingway or Keele and only limited bike lanes on Royal York and Runnymede. That's not ideal for luring people onto to bikes. Many of those roads feel quite unsafe for cycling now.

- Change: Parkside will get Cycle Tracks sooner than later, but at least one N-S corridor to the west needs to be added, if not two, in order to generate greater uptake.

b) Bikeshare: Much more established and dense in the Greektown area than in Bloor West Village ( 9 Bikeshare stations in close proximity/no hills), vs 5 in Bloor West.

c) TTC surface network support. Jane is somewhat comparable to Don Mills....... but bus service on Runnymede and S. Kingsway is not comparable to the service available on Broadview north or south

d) Local supermarkets. - under 1km from Bloor/Jane - 1; under 1km from Broadview/Danforth -- ~ 3 (technically the Foodland is 1.08km)

*****

What can be changed in the near-term (no major capital projects)

1) More Bikeshare

2) Parkside Cycle Tracks

3) An additional supermarket in Bloor West Village (one is probably coming just west of Jane)

4) Restore subway service to pre-pandemic levels

5)The connection from Dundas West to Bloor GO.

Medium/Long Term

1) GO Milton corridor with more frequent/off-peak service

2) Better N-S service on multiple TTC routes, starting w/S. Kingsway and Runnymede going from 15M off-peak to 10M off peak (and in Runnymede's case to 10M peak)

3) Add-on N-S cycle tracks and/or multi-use paths in more locations

4) More supermarkets one net new on Bloor west of Old Mill, one on Annette, somewhere in the area.


One more time, to be clear, I'm not griping about the bike lanes, I support them.

LOL, I think I got that bit..... :)

But we really are creating backlash out here. I would resist the urge to be defensive or dogmatic about that, maybe we need to step back and ask what can be done differently, and be a bit harder on ourselves.

- Paul

I agree. One other thing I didn't mention above is measures to smooth traffic flow; by which I mean severely restricting left turns on or off of Bloor (or other similar roads) where no traffic light and ideally left-turn lane is provided.

Thiis is a material issue when you go down to one lane each way, one car wanting to make a left can back up traffic for 2-3 blocks.

That said, curtailing the freedom to go left as one sees fit may yet be another source of anger among locals.
 
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You're right that on paper its a good candidate area, but above, I offered the example of Greektown, where I've seen significant modal shift the last few years. I highlighted a few things above, let's try to tie those into specifics.

Bloor West Village seems to have the right conditions in place to trend favourably over time. West of the Humber, I'm less sure.

a) Cycling Network: How do you go N-S as a cyclist near Bloor West? There are no full cycling facilities so far as I'm aware on Kipling, Islington, Jane, South Kingway or Keele and only limited bike lanes on Royal York and Runnymede. That's not ideal for luring people onto to bikes. Many of those roads feel quite unsafe for cycling now.

- Change: Parkside will get Cycle Tracks sooner than later, but at least one N-S corridor to the west needs to be added, if not two, in order to generate greater uptake.

b) Bikeshare: Much more established and dense in the Greektown area than in Bloor West Village ( 9 Bikeshare stations in close proximity/no hills), vs 5 in Bloor West.

c) TTC surface network support. Jane is somewhat comparable to Don Mills....... but bus service on Runnymede and S. Kingsway is not comparable to the service available on Broadview north or south

d) Local supermarkets. - under 1km from Bloor/Jane - 1; under 1km from Broadview/Danforth -- ~ 3 (technically the Foodland is 1.08km)

The evaporation of supermarkets and shopping generally in the west end is a big problem, and forces a lot of car trips that could be done away with. Unfortunately the trend is continuing. I am fearful that the new Avenue A at the Humber, which will push right through the Sobeys plaza, will lead to supermarket gridlock there (it's bad already). Similarly the impending loss of Six Points plaza, Cloverdale Mall, and Humbertown plaza all raise questions about how far people will have to travel to shop, and how they will get there. Same for Dundas between Runnymede and Scarlett.

It's disappointing how the Kip District (ugh, I despise that corny name) has turned out to be less than walkable. There is a supermarket, but things are too spread out and remain auto-dependent. It does not attract active traffic from the surrounding residential areas. The real test will come with the City Center development.... it ought to be a hub that can change a lot of habits, but I fear it will not have the ground floor retail or the connectivity to deter auto use. (Surely better cycling and walking routes radiating out from Kipling and Islington subways would be an obvious start...)

*****

What can be changed in the near-term (no major capital projects)

A good list. I would add, a far more aggressive insistence on preserving or expanding ground floor retail on all major-street development.

I agree. One other thing I didn't mention above is measures to smooth traffic flow; by which I mean severely restricting left turns on or off of Bloor (or other similar roads) where no traffic light and ideally left-turn lane is provided.

One big difference between Bloor West/Swansea and Etobicoke is that the former has on street parking in all the sidestreets while the latter has only Green P lots north of Bloor. The Green P lots drive a lot of left turns. I am quite accustomed to looping through Swansea to get on a favourable northwards path, or to find a parking spot. Sidestreet parking west of the Humber will get you a ticket.

Bloor West is doubly awkward thanks to the planters in the median, I wonder if things would be smoother without them.

- Paul
 
Apropos the conversation @crs1026 and @Northern Light were have above, a piece in The Star on hardening resistance to bike lanes in Etobicoke:


Not much new there, IMO, but worryingly ending with:

” Opposition in Etobicoke is hardening into something more than a petition and deputations at city hall. The group includes residents with low public profiles, impressive resumés, resources, and deep contacts across the city.

If they can't win this battle, they have their sights set on the next: the municipal election in 2026.“
 
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Apropos the conversation @crs1026 and @Northern Light were have above, a piece in The Star on hardening resistance to bike lanes in Etobicoke:


Not much new there, IMO, but worryingly ending with:

” Opposition in Etobicoke is hardening into something more than a petition and deputations at city hall. The group includes residents with low public profiles, impressive resumés, resources, and deep contacts across the city.

If they can't win this battle, they have their sights set on the next: the municipal election in 2026.“

They already have an anti-cycle track councillor.

Swapping that person out (Holyday) would change nothing.


I stand corrected by @crs1026; it was Holyday who led/hosted the anti Bloor cycle track meeting, so that was my thought process.

I see he's just a bit to the north, and on the north side of Bloor West of Kipling.

****

Hmmm, one more big cycling project for her ward that's on-road, in the near-term, that's The Queensway.

*****

Taken in isolation, I don't think this is overly concerning about a Mayoral election that's still more than 2 years out.

That's not to suggest some efforts shouldn't be made, in line with the discussion up thread to mollify/moderate some of the opposition here.

Equally, this is indicative of the need to pick/choose which projects to pursue carefully, understanding that some will alienate/annoy some people, but endeavouring not to turn a disgruntled few into a movement.

****

The meetings for Danforth-Kingston as reported by @TwinHuey has been surprisingly light on serious opposition. I fully expect that will change a bit if implementation moves forward, but 2 in-person meetings, 1 virtual is a fair bit, and the project got broad support.

****

I will say as well, as someone living in East York, the Danforth Cycle Track was quite divisive. Not as much so as Bloor West Village/Kingsway, but the Councillor who drove it through was also reelected, despite not having a great track record
on other issues.

****

For all of that, it does show value in pursuing some projects that may be lower opposition and at lower risk of future removal, including multi-use trail expansions, Bikeshare Expansion, and upgrading existing Cycle Track/Bike Lanes with better separation/intersection improvements.
 
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^Quick fact check: While Councillor Holyday is quite visible, the stretch of Bloor where the bike lanes just went in is in Councillor Morley’s Ward (3) - the former turf of Mark Grimes.

- Paul

Thanks for that Paul, I have edited my post accordingly.
 
The overriding reality in all of this is - absolutely nothing is happening in Etobicoke that would incent people away from their automobile. Until more services, amenities, and infrastructure are placed where people can access them without using their cars - or at least use only local streets to make much shorter trips - the car will be the mode of choice.
There is also the reality that a less car-focused Etobicoke would still have a huge volume of cars entering from equally carcentric Mississauga, and even less incentive exists to change their travel needs.
Building the cycling trails alone will not change that.
I have to admit that the net effect of what is being done is simply creating hardship for residents without equalising convenience so people see good reason to change.
I don’t agree with the local aka Holyday mindset - ie cling doggedly to the past and fight change fiercely - but I just don’t see the broad measures that would make things better being implemented.
The solution is to take a new look at where everything from skating rinks to doctors offices to shopping is located. Consolidating this at Sherway Gardens and Six Points seems wrongheaded as it simply changes the destination for the same drivers.
Etobicoke just isn’t laid out for the future.

- Paul

PS - The Star article suggests that the Bloor changes have impaired access to a hospital….. huh? Is there a hospital around here?
 
PS - The Star article suggests that the Bloor changes have impaired access to a hospital….. huh? Is there a hospital around here?

No.

The nearest hospital is Trillium's Queensway campus (by Sherway)
 
PS - The Star article suggests that the Bloor changes have impaired access to a hospital….. huh? Is there a hospital around here?

This is the bike lane equivalent of “Won’t someone please think of the children?” Somehow when a bike lane goes in, there’s always a hospital, fire station or emergency nearby that will have its access impaired. That’s despite the fact that car congestion will overwhelmingly impede emergency vehicle flow. It’s a low-quality argument that triggers an emotional response without proponents having to back up their case.

The overriding reality in all of this is - absolutely nothing is happening in Etobicoke that would incent people away from their automobile. Until more services, amenities, and infrastructure are placed where people can access them without using their cars - or at least use only local streets to make much shorter trips - the car will be the mode of choice.
There is also the reality that a less car-focused Etobicoke would still have a huge volume of cars entering from equally carcentric Mississauga, and even less incentive exists to change their travel needs.
Building the cycling trails alone will not change that.
I have to admit that the net effect of what is being done is simply creating hardship for residents without equalising convenience so people see good reason to change.
I don’t agree with the local aka Holyday mindset - ie cling doggedly to the past and fight change fiercely - but I just don’t see the broad measures that would make things better being implemented.
The solution is to take a new look at where everything from skating rinks to doctors offices to shopping is located. Consolidating this at Sherway Gardens and Six Points seems wrongheaded as it simply changes the destination for the same drivers.
Etobicoke just isn’t laid out for the future.

I believe this is a chicken and egg problem.

It’s not clear to me what can be done to break the cycle without the residents of Etobicoke accepting that their transport modal choice is working against them. For example, at some point back you made the point that the Ontario Line would never be extended westwards because the residents of Etobicoke would fight against it. Ok - so, they don’t want transit. They also overwhelmingly fight against retrofitting sidewalks into neighborhoods without. Ok - so, they don’t want pedestrians either. And clearly, they don’t want bike lanes. So…what? We clearly can’t just keep expanding the roads because they’re going to be clogged up again, so…

Additionally, if they just drive everywhere then there isn’t going to be local retail of the form you’re championing because it’s just not viable with that mode: car-centricity lends itself to nodal retail, because it’s faster to just drive to a box store or a mall and load up as opposed to making smaller local trips.

What we’re doing is unsustainable, and removing the bike lanes isn’t going to make those problems go away.

That said, I am worried about this turning into a movement, especially given that Ford, Holyday, etc. represent this part of the city and have deep, deep bases - and both are anti-cycling. (I guess the best I can say is that Ford has been indifferent so far?)
 
I disagree with Pappas on everything but this, which he is totally right about.

Pappas can’t understand how the city makes decisions — when 20 people complaining to the city were once able to prevent him from opening a rooftop patio
 
I won't patronize the Crooked Cue at this point, but I used to when I worked out west, and a rooftop patio would have been great.
 
The Avenue Road improvements were adopted at Council today with some minor amendments:

1719524668291.png
 

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