[W. K. Lis]

When the original horseless carriage came along, it was a plaything for the rich. The rich wanted roadways that were of benefit to them and the automobile they were riding in. Guess who was in charge of the government, then and now? The rich. So they requested, demanded, commanded that the roads should benefit the automobile. Ignore the non-automobile pedestrian. We still have that attitude in the government, benefit themselves.

 

[Divas S.]

This is probably because I'm always looking at my surroundings and planning how to cross a road safely before I actually go and do it. Hence I wait until there's a safe opening or I can make eye contact with drivers and make sure they know I'm there before I start crossing

I could say the same with too many pedestrians where they're too busy looking at their phones, on a phone call or listening to their music far too often rather than paying attention to their surroundings. These kinds of behaviors aren't exclusive to just drivers and in all likelihood the same pedestrians who walk distracted are probably drivers who drive distracted.

no.

 

[Admiral Beez]

The rich wanted roadways that were of benefit to them and the automobile they were riding in.

For the most part, those Torontonians who rely on cars in this city are not the rich, but the low to middle class. I live in Cabbagetown, and many of my neighbours don’t have cars, or rarely use them, because they‘re high earning professionals who work downtown. For many wealthy people cars are a needless nuisance. Maybe that’s why we’re seeing bike lanes, since the wealthy and connected people now want them.

 

[W. K. Lis]

For the most part, those Torontonians who rely on cars in this city are not the rich, but the low to middle class. I live in Cabbagetown, and many of my neighbours don’t have cars, or rarely use them, because they‘re high earning professionals who work downtown. For many wealthy people cars are a needless nuisance. Maybe that’s why we’re seeing bike lanes, since the wealthy and connected people now want them.

That's in the neighourhoods that were originally designed for people to walk around. Unfortunately, people have been moving into the newer neighourhoods out in the sticks, that are designed not for walking but for driving. People even go into debt to purchase an automobile, to imitate their neighbours who have fancy cars.

 

[gabe]

Unfortunately, people have been moving into the newer neighourhoods out in the sticks, that are designed not for walking but for driving. People even go into debt to purchase an automobile, to imitate their neighbours who have fancy cars.

Cars have become a status symbol. I hate those people who buy expensive cars they can't afford. I work in sales for a high-end ornamental wrought iron railing company. People will have $250 thousand worth of cars in the driveway, ( top of the line BMW parked next to a Range Rover with a Porsche in the garage) And then they try to nickel and dime me to death.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Cars have become a status symbol. I hate those people who buy expensive cars they can't afford. I work in sales for a high-end ornamental wrought iron railing company. People will have $250 thousand worth of cars in the driveway, ( top of the line BMW parked next to a Range Rover with a Porsche in the garage) And then they try to nickel and dime me to death.

Especially since the nickel may go the way of the penny later this decade. ?

Will the nickel follow the penny into retirement?

See link.

 

[crs1026]

Cars have become a status symbol. I hate those people who buy expensive cars they can't afford. I work in sales for a high-end ornamental wrought iron railing company. People will have $250 thousand worth of cars in the driveway, ( top of the line BMW parked next to a Range Rover with a Porsche in the garage) And then they try to nickel and dime me to death.

I don’t own a high end vehicle, but I have driven a few. They are better. If you have the disposable income, they are just as good a thing to spend money on as anything else. Especially if you drive a lot. Griping about how other people have disposable income is a bit childish IMHO.

More importantly - It’s not important to this discussion. Whether someone is driving a new Mercedes SUV or an aging KIA SUV won’t change the fatality stats a whit. (Actually, the Mercedes with its newer high end driving assist technology might actually stop sooner, or at least decelerate more, leading to a marginally better chance of a pedestrian surviving the impact, but that is splitting hairs.) The question ought to be, why buy an SUV at all given their proven lethality.

The answer to that is pretty clear: consumers prefer them. People buy the car they feel they need. Outside of the centre of the city, most people do need cars, and will for the foreseeable future. Arguing against car ownership won’t change anything.

- Paul

 

[44 North]

More importantly - It’s not important to this discussion. Whether someone is driving a new Mercedes SUV or an aging KIA SUV won’t change the fatality stats a whit. (Actually, the Mercedes with its newer high end driving assist technology might actually stop sooner, or at least decelerate more, leading to a marginally better chance of a pedestrian surviving the impact, but that is splitting hairs.) The question ought to be, why buy an SUV at all given their proven lethality.

I feel like the stats aren't there to back that yet. Driving assist may help some, but I think the increase in weight and dimensional size of SUVs has led to a marked decrease in survivability for ped-auto impacts vis a vis the same model's previous generations. Whether it's a Sportage or G-wagon, they're all taller, wider, and heavier than they used to be.

And just a thought right now, but luxury vehicles tend to be heavier on account of greater driver safety features and infotainment therefore increasing their lethality. Eventually driver assist and full on automation will increase survivability numbers, but I don't think we're there yet.

 

[W. K. Lis]

I feel like the stats aren't there to back that yet. Driving assist may help some, but I think the increase in weight and dimensional size of SUVs has led to a marked decrease in survivability for ped-auto impacts vis a vis the same model's previous generations. Whether it's a Sportage or G-wagon, they're all taller, wider, and heavier than they used to be.

And just a thought right now, but luxury vehicles tend to be heavier on account of greater driver safety features and infotainment therefore increasing their lethality. Eventually driver assist and full on automation will increase survivability numbers, but I don't think we're there yet.

That weight means a greater hitting force, coupled by the increased volume, which means that pedestrians would have less chance to survive a collision with a SUV or truck.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Pedestrians are at a much higher risk due to SUVs and pickups

See link.

SUV and pickup sales have increased dramatically in recent years at a time when the sale of smaller sedans has dropped. These large vehicles may allow their drivers to feel more secure, but they put pedestrians and other road users at increased risk of death and serious injury. In fact, a recent study by the Detroit Free Press has uncovered that the dramatic upswing in fatal pedestrian accidents across the country in the nearly last decade is largely because of the growing number of large vehicles on the road.

SUVs put pedestrians in danger

It almost goes without saying that large vehicles are more dangerous to pedestrians than smaller ones. However, it is not just their size, but also how SUVs and pickups are designed that makes them so dangerous. In contrast to sedans, these larger vehicles tend to have higher and boxier front ends that are more likely to hit pedestrians’ upper bodies. Sedans, on the other hand, are more likely to strike pedestrians’ lower bodies.

SUVs are also more powerful than smaller vehicles and, because of their large size, take longer to come to a full stop when driving at high speeds. That’s an especially big danger to pedestrians because even a relatively small increase in speed can have a big impact on survival rates. For example, while pedestrians struck by a vehicle going 20 mph have a 95 percent survival rate, that drops to 55 percent survival at 30 mph, and 15 percent survival at 40 mph.

Pedestrian fatalities climb

In recent years, SUV and, to a lesser extent, pickup sales have surged. About 60 percent of new vehicle sales are now SUVs or pickups and many automakers have even announced that they are discontinuing production of some of their smaller vehicles. As larger vehicles have become more popular with American drivers, the dangers that pedestrians face has likewise increased.

Pedestrian deaths have surged by 49 percent across the country since 2009, which is about the time when SUV sales started to increase dramatically. As NPR reports, between 2009 and 2016 the number of pedestrians killed by SUVs in single-vehicle collisions soared by 81 percent. The report by the Detroit Free Press also found that SUV and pickups were the main culprit in the increasing pedestrian fatality rate, far outstripping other possible causes like distracted driving, increased walking, or lower gas prices.

Personal injury law

The injuries that a pedestrian or other victim may sustain in a crash can be severe and painful. The crash may also lead to time taken off work, steep medical bills, and other expenses...

 

[crs1026]

And just a thought right now, but luxury vehicles tend to be heavier on account of greater driver safety features and infotainment therefore increasing their lethality. Eventually driver assist and full on automation will increase survivability numbers, but I don't think we're there yet.

I don’t have any stats to offer, but the weight of the driver assist technology can’t represent more than a few circuit boards and some wiring, can it? This is trivial compared to the added weight of designing larger and roomier vehicles with more spacious interiors and luggage capacity...these vehicles never seem to get smaller with time! Pickup trucks even moreso.

- Paul

 

[44 North]

I don’t have any stats to offer, but the weight of the driver assist technology can’t represent more than a few circuit boards and some wiring, can it? This is trivial compared to the added weight of designing larger and roomier vehicles with more spacious interiors and luggage capacity...these vehicles never seem to get smaller with time! Pickup trucks even moreso.

- Paul

oop, communication error. Didn't mean driver assist adds weight. And yes gone are the days of small new pickups. But I hope they'll be back.

 

[lenaitch]

oop, communication error. Didn't mean driver assist adds weight. And yes gone are the days of small new pickups. But I hope they'll be back.

Most of my vehicles have been pickups. The last full sized I owned was a '78. The market got pretty thin for a number of years but has come back.

 

[crs1026]

Had an experience today that I figured was worth sharing. Royal York Subway has a real problem with on-street drop-offs. There is a pull-in for drop-offs, but it's an awkward routing especially southbound. It is actually faster to stop on the road, drop your passenger, and just carry on, than to try to left-turn into the drop-off ramp. The area in front of the station is signed no stopping, but this too is never enforced. It's a pedestrian-auto-bus-taxi zoo out front of the Subway.

Anyways, today a southbound motorist (BMW, if it matters) stops and lets a woman off. She needs to cross Royal York to reach the subway, and that's always tricky given traffic. So the driver pulls a U-turn, but stops halfway through, barricading the roadway, as a police cruiser would do. They wait there until their passenger has safely reached the curb, then they finish the U-turn and drive off.

It says something when motorists recognize just how dangerous it is to cross the street, to the point where they take extraordinary steps to protect their own loved ones when those folks are at risk. As to the other guy? Bah.

- Paul

 

[Admiral Beez]

I hate those people who buy expensive cars they can't afford.

Really, you hold hatred for people who exceed their ability to pay for something? Not even simple disdain, but hatred?

When I got my first job in 1996, I bought a 1989 Dodge Shadow as my first car, that I couldn't really afford. Would that make me a target of your hate?

Why do you care if they can't afford the car? Are you a loan agent worried they might default on the debt?