[tstormers]

I am not directly involved w/the discussion as the City, merely aware of them.

Below is my understanding; but not be entirely correct.

View attachment 325023

I really hope they are not thinking of putting a traffic light at that intersection of Bayview and the offramp at grade...
The traffic there backs up onto the DVP already creating bad conditions of people changing lanes erratically all the way from Don Mills during rush-hours. I would love expanded parks as I do live nearby, but the chaos on the DVP at the Bayview offramp will be amplified.

 

[hawc]

Hopefully, they'll close one entire lane of Bayview in each direction for CafeTO. That plus more bikes lanes. Anything to make car drivers as miserable as possible since they're evil and driving needs to be strongly discouraged.

Am I right?

 

[DirectionNorth]

Hopefully, they'll close one entire lane of Bayview in each direction for CafeTO. That plus more bikes lanes. Anything to make car drivers as miserable as possible since they're evil and driving needs to be strongly discouraged.

Am I right?

Such a stupid (and strawman and false) comment that it really doesn't deserve a response.

 

[evandyk]

Yes! Put some cafes on Bayview!

 

[hawc]

Such a stupid (and strawman and false) comment that it really doesn't deserve a response.

It's slowly happening across all of Toronto though. The City is doing all it can to discourage driving. Not make driving easier. These include more bike lanes, lower speed limits, narrowing roads, CafeTO etc. These are all done with the express or side goal of making driving less desirable and less convenient. Or put another way, there is NOTHING the city is doing to actively make driving easier. I mean most people on this forum would say that's. GOOD thing.

 

[evandyk]

The last thing we need in Toronto is more cars in the street. Drivers already whine constantly about how much traffic there is.

 

[smably]

It's slowly happening across all of Toronto though. The City is doing all it can to discourage driving. Not make driving easier. These include more bike lanes, lower speed limits, narrowing roads, CafeTO etc. These are all done with the express or side goal of making driving less desirable and less convenient. Or put another way, there is NOTHING the city is doing to actively make driving easier. I mean most people on this forum would say that's. GOOD thing.

It couldn't be about safety or livability, right? It must be a personal affront to you as a driver!

 

[TossYourJacket]

These include more bike lanes, lower speed limits, narrowing roads

You do realise these are all things designed to prevent people (mostly cyclists and pedestrians) from dying right? Or are you trying to say we should just let dozens of people die every year so that life is more convenient for drivers? Because yeah, I don't think you're gonna find much support for that view around here, for good reason.

 

[hawc]

You do realise these are all things designed to prevent people (mostly cyclists and pedestrians) from dying right? Or are you trying to say we should just let dozens of people die every year so that life is more convenient for drivers? Because yeah, I don't think you're gonna find much support for that view around here, for good reason.

Are the statistics in? Do they conclusively show a proportionate decrease in cyclist deaths to miles of bikes lanes created in the city? Is it a zero-sum game? More bike lanes, less deaths? Fewer bike lanes more deaths? I don't think anyone has that kind of proof yet.

I've been commuting by bike for 30 years. In those 3 decades I've never been hit by a car. (I have been hit by 3 rollerbladers and 2 dogs.)

Do dedicated bikes lanes offer a sense of safety or protection to those who are nervous riding around cars? I think they do. And if that encourages more people to ride then that's great. But have they conclusively been shown to significantly and proportionately decrease cyclist deaths? I'd love to see those statisitcs.

I personally preferred cycling without them.

And I know I'm in the minority. But I find them crowded and they further construct the 'Cyclist vs Cars' dynamic. Drivers are even less willing to share the road with cyclists, because the cyclists should stick to the their bike lanes. Which I guess then is the self-justifying reason for more lanes. And if you want to go for fast ride the cyclists get mad at you too! So you really can't win. Ride up the Bayview Extension too quickly in the bike lane get yelled at by cyclists. Ride on the road part and drivers scream at you to use your bike lane.

I'm old now, but I much preferred when we all shared the road. It might have made certain riders feel nervous and less protected, but I'd love to see the stats that prove that things are proportionately safer now.

 

[DirectionNorth]

Are the statistics in? Do they conclusively show a proportionate decrease in cyclist deaths to miles of bikes lanes created in the city? Is it a zero-sum game? More bike lanes, less death IPs? Fewer bike lanes more deaths? I don't think anyone has that kind of proof yet.

There is absolutely proof.
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/05/190529113036.htm
https://www.peopleforbikes.org/statistics/safety
https://torontoist.com/2012/06/ontario-coroner-100-of-cycling-deaths-were-preventable/
https://www.caa.ca/sustainability/cycling/bike-statistics/
https://www.researchgate.net/public...tivity_air_pollution_exposure_and_road_safety

I've been commuting by bike for 30 years. In those 3 decades I've never been hit by a car. (I have been hit by 3 rollerbladers and 2 dogs.)

I assume you've never died from COVID, so we shouldn't fund vaccine research?

Do dedicated bikes lanes offer a sense of safety or protection to those who are nervous riding around cars? I think they do. And if that encourages more people to ride then that's great. But have they conclusively been shown to significantly and proportionately decrease cyclist deaths? I'd love to see those statisitcs.

See links above.

I personally preferred cycling without them.

And ...

And I know I'm in the minority.

So, they make the majority of people feel safer? Deal. We don't build infrastructure around the minority of people.

But I find them crowded and they further construct the 'Cyclist vs Cars' dynamic. Drivers are even less willing to share the road with cyclists, because the cyclists should stick to the their bike lanes. Which I guess then is the self-justifying reason for more lanes. And if you want to go for fast ride the cyclists get mad at you too! So you really can't win. Ride up the Bayview Extension too quickly in the bike lane get yelled at by cyclists. Ride on the road part and drivers scream at you to use your bike lane.

It's also about culture. The car VS bike war is less pronounced in Europe, which has better cycling infrastructure.

I'm old now, but I much preferred when we all shared the road. It might have made certain riders feel nervous and less protected,

The majority like you admitted above?

but I'd love to see the stats that prove that things are proportionately safer now.