afransen
Senior Member
Never is a long time.
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- Thread starter jozl
- Start date
afransen
Senior Member
If you're renting a ride, 2 seaters work. If you need more space, you pay a bit of a premium and get more space.
afransen
Senior Member
The difference in mass is not sufficient to explain the increase in pedestrian mortality.Except that there's a kinetic energy calculation that applies to all vehicle crash related injury, based on speed and mass.
The sum of kinetic energy is important in determining an injury severity and that is equal to one half of the vehicle mass multiplied by the square of the vehicle speed
Kinetic energy management in road traffic injury prevention: a call for action
By virtue of their variability, mass and speed have important roles in transferring energies during a crash incidence (kinetic energy). The sum of kinetic energy is important in determining an injury severity and that is equal to one half of the vehicle ...www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
Even when separating out SUV/Pickup class vehicles, weight does matter.
"For the average U.S. metro area, a 100 kilogram increase in vehicle size corresponded to a statistically significant 2.4 percent increase in pedestrian fatalities. The impact of light trucks (again: SUVs, pick-ups, and minivans) was even more significant. In an average metro area, for every 10 percent of vehicles that rose in size to light trucks, there was a 3.6 percent increase in the pedestrian fatality rate."
The troubling tie between bigger cars and pedestrian deaths
A new study estimates that replacing large vehicles with standard ones would have saved more than 8,100 lives since 2000. What can be done?medium.com
Did the analysis above control for vehicle geometry, or is it confounded with weight?
turbanplanner
Active Member
No, I'm pointing out Zang is being incredibly silly thinking he knows better what car people should buy vs the owners. I have a 2 seat car and it isn't as rugged as a truck. I've paid $5000 for vehicle repairs due to crap roads (suspension, windshields, bent wheels etc) the city and province have given back $0. Ironically my friends in trucks have paid $0 for those types of repairs. The fact I can't carry a pet, a couch, or even a TV is probably enough for most people to buy more a bigger car.
nfitz
Superstar
The height of the front is the key issue. I'm not sure why they don't simply mandate some impact standards on the front, that are based on pedestrian survivability. Lower points that throw you up instead of down. Crushability.
innsertnamehere
Superstar
The trend has definitely slowed - but it's still declining. We broke below 300 pedestrian deaths for the first time in 2020, and that was repeated in 2022 with only 294 pedestrian deaths.
going back 20 years to 2002, pedestrian deaths were at 363:
Table 3-1: Transportation Fatalities by Mode (Number of people), Canada
Table 3-1: Transportation Fatalities by Mode (Number of people), Canada
This is a difference of about 19%. Per-capita, the decline is even greater. Canada grew from 31.2 million to 38.7 million in that time - 24%. Per-capita, that's a pedestrian death rate decline of 35%, going from 1.16 deaths per 100,000 to 0.76 deaths per 100,000! In 26 years, it's even greater, with the pedestrian death rate per capita being less than half in 2022 than in 1996 (0.76/100,000 vs. 1.6/100,000)
Also - Canada enjoys one of the lower road fatality rates in the western world on miles-travelled:
Definitely possible to improve, but we are doing better than even the illustrious Netherlands.
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innsertnamehere
Superstar
I don't disagree with this. Full size pickup trucks front hoods are absolutely ridiculous these days and are absolutely a threat to pedestrian safety.
That said - Canada isn't really seeing substantial increases in pedestrian or road deaths. At all. It's actually going the other way pretty consistently. Doesn't mean we can't do better though.
zang
Senior Member
Sure, why not give it a try. Free Market Capitalism and Libertarianism has done squat to help save pedestrians from vehicle deaths.
turbanplanner
Active Member
So then, what are your courses of action for people who live in the city but need a larger vehicle for work? What about people who have pets, what about people who have cottages, etc.
Sweeping restrictions don’t really help anybody.
innsertnamehere
Superstar
I mean look at my post above. Pedestrian fatality rates have been halved in 25 years.
A lot of that is attributable to efforts greater than "free market capitalism" - but the automotive markets safety features are a massive, massive reason (much of which is in response to legislation, much of which is genuine market innovation) for the massive reduction in road deaths and injuries.
zang
Senior Member
Perhaps everyone should own a cube van for the times they might move house?
They could do that, or they could just rent for the times they need more. Is it that oppressive a concept?
Funny how I can't legally buy a car without seatbelts, or drive whatever speed I want.
turbanplanner
Active Member
Why strawman the argument? I trust people enough to buy something that makes sense for them.
My point about sweeping rules was that everyone’s situation is unique enough that I think a general rule on what cars you can own would need to have so many exceptions it would be pointless.
innsertnamehere
Superstar
That's 427 fatalities a year, correct.
But that's only if all SUVs were replaced with cars.
SUVs and trucks aren't new though. they have increased as a percentage of the vehicle fleet substantially, but have always existed. They have gone from about 10% of the total fleet to 30% since the SUV trend started around 2010. So only a small fraction of those would be associated with the increase in the prevalence of SUVs.
If SUVs are about 1.7x as likely to cause a fatality as the study suggests, the total fatality risk of the entire US vehicle fleet has actually increased about 13% since 2010. This suggests bringing SUVs back to a percentage of the total fleet they were 15 years ago would result in a 13% reduction in pedestrian fatalities. In the US.
The Canadian market is different, very, very different, when it comes to this kind of thing both in terms of average vehicle size and death rates.
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zang
Senior Member
Most of the referenced data is from 2000-2008, before the massive rise in SUVs. It's still basic physics though, that an object with more mass will transfer more energy to whatever it strikes.
zang
Senior Member
I'd like to find a study that actually finds that people buy cars that are safer for the pedestrians they may hit.
Most studies about driver behaviour has the majority of drivers believing they're a better driver than most others on the road. It's unlikely a purchase is calculated on "what if I'm not better"?