News   GLOBAL  |  Apr 02, 2020
 8.4K     0 
News   GLOBAL  |  Apr 01, 2020
 39K     0 
News   GLOBAL  |  Apr 01, 2020
 4.7K     0 

If people don't care about what type of home they live in then why do people move out of Toronto to have a large family home instead according to you they should live in a condo instead of a house so that they can live in Toronto. This is not nimbysium.
I can't force you to live in a certain home ... But you also can't force others to not build certain homes. If you care so much about affordability, then how do we get out of it? Reduce immigration, or build more units (how much sprawl is needed to accommodate all demand?)
I all for transit when it makes sense bus or streetcar Lanes on lake shore Blvd won't help anyone at all as there is nothing for anyone to use it for that isn't already served.
It's for future demand.
They are a joke and nothing can be done to improve them. The problem is a short sighted condo department company was given control over all of the waterfront in Toronto and their has been no reviews over it.
Really? As much as I wish that we could turn back in time and build more units earlier so we don't have to rush today, it's been done. Besides, I don't think the plans are that bad.
Unfortunately I don't share the options of people here and they would rather be in a world where everything is positive about everything that they like. The world isn't like that.
But the world can't stand still for you either.
 
I can't force you to live in a certain home ... But you also can't force others to not build certain homes. If you care so much about affordability, then how do we get out of it? Reduce immigration, or build more units (how much sprawl is needed to accommodate all demand?)

It's for future demand.

Really? As much as I wish that we could turn back in time and build more units earlier so we don't have to rush today, it's been done. Besides, I don't think the plans are that bad.

But the world can't stand still for you either.
Right so I have to agree to everything and not be allowed to have my opinion on this board because it's wrong
 
If people don't care about what type of home they live in then why do people move out of Toronto to have a large family home instead according to you they should live in a condo instead of a house so that they can live in Toronto. This is not nimbysium.

I all for transit when it makes sense bus or streetcar Lanes on lake shore Blvd won't help anyone at all as there is nothing for anyone to use it for that isn't already served.

They are a joke and nothing can be done to improve them. The problem is a short sighted condo department company was given control over all of the waterfront in Toronto and their has been no reviews over it.

Unfortunately I don't share the options of people here and they would rather be in a world where everything is positive about everything that they like. The world isn't like that.
I don’t think you know what you are talking about. What condo developer was given all of the waterfront? That’s not the case at all. The parks built by Waterfront Toronto aren’t ‘just concrete’ like you claim either. Have you even been downtown? Your description of the waterfront is the exact opposite of what actually exists today.

Also your argument that there’s been no ‘reviews’ over it is factually incorrect too. There’s been plenty of public consultation and involvement from all 3 levels of government.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I don’t think you know what you are talking about. What condo developer was given all of the waterfront? That’s not the case at all. The parks built by Waterfront Toronto aren’t ‘just concrete’ like you claim either. Have you even been downtown? Your description of the waterfront is the exact opposite of what actually exists today.

Also your argument that there’s been no ‘reviews’ over it is factually incorrect too. There’s been plenty of public consultation and involvement from all 3 levels of government.
Waterfront Toronto is a condo development company they are going to build condos after they have "improved" the waterfront. What did you think was going to be put there?
 
The problem is all of the plans were made without any input except for the development company that is waterfront Toronto. Your arguments make no sense at all. Why on earth would there be a streetcar line on lake shore Blvd. I'm sure that the TTC rejected that idea with very good reasons and not anything to do with buses.

As I said we need housing in Toronto not condos with a small convenience store, chain fast-food restaurants and a grocery store or shopper's drug mart. The whole waterfront development is centered around people who will live in that area and no one else. They don't care about anyone in Toronto who isn't going to buy one of them or rent one.

The "parks" are mostly concrete with a water feature and some grass and trees. That is not a park that is useful for anyone other than someone who wants to sit and people watch.
You REALLY have not been paying attention. There has been MASSSIVE consultation about how best to develop our waterfront. Waterfront Toronto has said for years that we need an LRT on QQE, unfortunately the City (who needs to pay for it) never got its act together. We appear to be moving in the right direction now - though I will only believe it when I can go by streetcar from Union to Cherry and QQE!

Yes, some parks are more 'useful' for some citizens than others but the waterfront has a great variety of parks - we live in a climate where 'western European' parks would not work in winter so we need to try to build a different kind of park that can be fun to be in 365 days a year or a variety of parks that provide options. Overall, I think WT have managed that pretty well.
 
The problem is all of the plans were made without any input except for the development company that is waterfront Toronto. Your arguments make no sense at all. Why on earth would there be a streetcar line on lake shore Blvd. I'm sure that the TTC rejected that idea with very good reasons and not anything to do with buses.

As I said we need housing in Toronto not condos with a small convenience store, chain fast-food restaurants and a grocery store or shopper's drug mart. The whole waterfront development is centered around people who will live in that area and no one else. They don't care about anyone in Toronto who isn't going to buy one of them or rent one.

The "parks" are mostly concrete with a water feature and some grass and trees. That is not a park that is useful for anyone other than someone who wants to sit and people watch.
The day of single and townhouse are at an end in most parts of Toronto that you need to go tall to meet future needs. Not every building has to be an condo, but also rental. Not every tower has to taller than 10s.

If one has walked around the city core these days as well know what the area look like over 10 years ago, you will see a large areas that were single homes, single/double retail have or becoming 10-60s towers.

Rental development die up a long time ago that it has now return in great numbers than before. Various developers are seeing a bigger return on investment for rental as they can get shovels faster into the ground than condos to start seeing the return on the investment than wait years to get to the 80% sold

Again, you cannot put retail into every development as it saturate the market that these retail sit empty up to a decade or more. One has to go to Queen and Gladstone to see empty retail that was built over 5 years ago, or Weston Rd and Dundas that was built over 10 years ago and the list goes on. Even where retail exist before COVID sat empty where it used to be busy. Markets change as well what residents want in the area are willing to support.

The BIA for the waterfront has complain about lack of business in the area for over a decade because the local residents were not supporting them. Why is that??

What was vision by Waterfront Toronto was taken out of their hands by developers who properties were part of Waterfront Toronto Plan. Waterfront Toronto lives from projects to projects as they have used up the seed money from all 3 levels of government.

You can have so much green space as some end up being empty most of the time. There is cost to maintain the grass areas compare to concrete. Lack of play areas for kids is a problem, let along basketball courts.

As for the Lake Shore Line, the idea was to offer faster service to the east where the line connect to Kingston Rd and allowing another option for residents east of Kingston Rd to get downtown faster than the current way..

The north side is to see mix development while the south will see employment with some residential. What the area lack is grocery stores that force people to travel long distance to get food.
 
REALLY have not been paying attention. There has been MASSSIVE consultation about how best to develop our waterfront. Waterfront Toronto has said for years that we need an LRT on QQE, unfortunately the City (who needs to pay for it) never got its act together. We appear to be moving in the right direction now - though I will only believe it when I can go by streetcar from Union to Cherry and QQE!
It wasn't built because there was no finding for it. It's being built now because we have funding for it. The TTC doesn't have the money to be able to build infiscture it isn't going to use right away. Just look at how many abandoned streetcar tracks their are downtown right because they aren't used of the city has plans for that area and the TTC doesn't want to have to do the work twice.
Yes, some parks are more 'useful' for some citizens than others but the waterfront has a great variety of parks - we live in a climate where 'western European' parks would not work in winter so we need to try to build a different kind of park that can be fun to be in 365 days a year or a variety of parks that provide options. Overall, I think WT have managed that pretty well.
I disagree people want parks that their kids can do activities in when the weather is nice. Kids can't play in park with a large concrete pool in it. It's like with rail Deck park it was only going to be trees and grass which everyone seems to think is the only thing that makes up a park.

There are many things that aren't being thought of in that area or in the city in general like as I said before about schools. In some areas of the city there aren't enough places for kids in a local school so they get bused to one further away. A solution to that has been done in other cities and what was done was a section of a condo was given to the school board and it's a separate building within the condo with a separate entrance only for the school. That's something that all condo development companies should be looking at but they don't all they want to do is build it fil it and move on to the next one and not really care of the needs of people in the area are being met.

In Toronto right now houses are in demand where I live we get constantly asked by real estate agents who want to know if we are planning to sell or if we know if someone is going to sell. We just had a couple move into a house on our street who lived in a condo downtown.
 
The BIA for the waterfront has complain about lack of business in the area for over a decade because the local residents were not supporting them. Why is that??
Probably because most of the places their are ones that you can find anywhere else and don't really service a large amount of people. For example on Queens Quay between Spadina and Bay the largest retailer is shopper's drug mart near Spadina everything else is either a small convenience store, Tim Hortons, Starbucks or something else and not really something that attracts a lot of business to the area. Even before covid the busiest places were the Starbucks and Tim Hortons and subway. I think that says a lot more then any studies that are done.
 
The day of single and townhouse are at an end in most parts of Toronto that you need to go tall to meet future needs. Not every building has to be an condo, but also rental. Not every tower has to taller than 10s.
Which is a big problem as people want to have a house that isn't in a building. As I said in another post in the area that I live in we constantly have real estate agents who want to know what houses are for sale or if you are going to sell yours.
 
Which is a big problem as people want to have a house that isn't in a building. As I said in another post in the area that I live in we constantly have real estate agents who want to know what houses are for sale or if you are going to sell yours.
The reason for wanting a house is that many of the new condos have a small square footage. Many people do not want a bachelor apartment (zero bedroom, where the bed converts into a chesterfield) or a one bedroom. People don't want a den or office that is just a widen hallway or alcove. Only investors or immigrants from outside of North America would accept a small footage condo suite.
 
It wasn't built because there was no finding for it. It's being built now because we have funding for it. The TTC doesn't have the money to be able to build infiscture it isn't going to use right away. Just look at how many abandoned streetcar tracks their are downtown right because they aren't used of the city has plans for that area and the TTC doesn't want to have to do the work twice.

I disagree people want parks that their kids can do activities in when the weather is nice. Kids can't play in park with a large concrete pool in it. It's like with rail Deck park it was only going to be trees and grass which everyone seems to think is the only thing that makes up a park.

There are many things that aren't being thought of in that area or in the city in general like as I said before about schools. In some areas of the city there aren't enough places for kids in a local school so they get bused to one further away. A solution to that has been done in other cities and what was done was a section of a condo was given to the school board and it's a separate building within the condo with a separate entrance only for the school. That's something that all condo development companies should be looking at but they don't all they want to do is build it fil it and move on to the next one and not really care of the needs of people in the area are being met.

In Toronto right now houses are in demand where I live we get constantly asked by real estate agents who want to know if we are planning to sell or if we know if someone is going to sell. We just had a couple move into a house on our street who lived in a condo downtown.
Though I am not an expert on schools, you are correct that there are not enough schools in some areas. The problem is that OVERALL the school boards have too many schools and the government will not fund more. Those living in "over-schooled" areas do not want their school closed so kids from other areas must get bussed there or the family moves to be closer to a school that has room to take their kids.
 
Right so I have to agree to everything and not be allowed to have my opinion on this board because it's wrong
Since when have I said that? It's a forum, we're here to talk about our opinions. If I don't want to talk with you, I can leave. If you don't want to engage with me, you don't have to.
It wasn't built because there was no finding for it. It's being built now because we have funding for it.
The story of Toronto.
The TTC doesn't have the money to be able to build infiscture it isn't going to use right away. Just look at how many abandoned streetcar tracks their are downtown right because they aren't used of the city has plans for that area and the TTC doesn't want to have to do the work twice.
1. Something tells me that they are going to start using it right away.
2. Mostly legacy tracks, left for diversions and operational flexibility.
I disagree people want parks that their kids can do activities in when the weather is nice. Kids can't play in park with a large concrete pool in it. It's like with rail Deck park it was only going to be trees and grass which everyone seems to think is the only thing that makes up a park.
Agree. We have twisted ideas of what a park is.
There are many things that aren't being thought of in that area or in the city in general like as I said before about schools. In some areas of the city there aren't enough places for kids in a local school so they get bused to one further away. A solution to that has been done in other cities and what was done was a section of a condo was given to the school board and it's a separate building within the condo with a separate entrance only for the school. That's something that all condo development companies should be looking at but they don't all they want to do is build it fil it and move on to the next one and not really care of the needs of people in the area are being met.
Yeah, the RE market makes our development less good than it could be.
In Toronto right now houses are in demand where I live we get constantly asked by real estate agents who want to know if we are planning to sell or if we know if someone is going to sell. We just had a couple move into a house on our street who lived in a condo downtown.
I own a condo, and I get asked about selling as well. Pretty sure there are people who move from houses to condos too.
Probably because most of the places their are ones that you can find anywhere else and don't really service a large amount of people. For example on Queens Quay between Spadina and Bay the largest retailer is shopper's drug mart near Spadina everything else is either a small convenience store, Tim Hortons, Starbucks or something else and not really something that attracts a lot of business to the area. Even before covid the busiest places were the Starbucks and Tim Hortons and subway. I think that says a lot more then any studies that are done.
The solution isn't to stop development but to make that development better. Unfortunately, until prices go down, people will buy anything and everything.
Which is a big problem as people want to have a house that isn't in a building. As I said in another post in the area that I live in we constantly have real estate agents who want to know what houses are for sale or if you are going to sell yours.
See above. Also, I'm going to drag up a 6-month old post to refute:
2) Unfortunately, there is a societal cost to all of us living in detached houses. You can't always have what you want. People live in the housing type that they perceive to be cheapest, closest to their activities, and the most suited to their lifestyle. Let's look at why a "condo lifestyle" is undesirable.

a) The size of units is too small. This one is totally valid. There's a simple solution. Have developers build bigger units, by regulation. Or have the government build it.
b) Condo fees. This one is also valid. Unfortunately, there's not a good way around it. On the other hand, people in houses also have to pay for maintenance.
c) Association rules. Some of them are stupid. Some of them are not. A valid point, but in a condo, you have to have some rules to keep people from destroying the building.
d) Limited outdoor space. Not as concerning, and here's why. How many people with huge yards, actually use most of it? Or view mowing the lawn as fun, rather than a necessary chore? Probably very few.
e) Privacy. This one is valid, but again. There's not much around it, other than soundproofing walls. I believe only some condos are soundproofed. All of them should be.
f) Cultural perceptions that condos are for "poor" people, or something like that. This one is stupid. With the above factors (partially) fixed, this can change.
Posted to the GTA West thread, but applicable in any situation where we talk about SFH being the only thing desirable. There are lots of things I want, but some of them are bad for society or unrealistic.
Though I am not an expert on schools, you are correct that there are not enough schools in some areas. The problem is that OVERALL the school boards have too many schools and the government will not fund more. Those living in "over-schooled" areas do not want their school closed so kids from other areas must get bussed there or the family moves to be closer to a school that has room to take their kids.
Unfortunately, that is the case.
 
The reason for wanting a house is that many of the new condos have a small square footage. Many people do not want a bachelor apartment (zero bedroom, where the bed converts into a chesterfield) or a one bedroom. People don't want a den or office that is just a widen hallway or alcove. Only investors or immigrants from outside of North America would accept a small footage condo suite.

Yeah, there are tons of people who would love to raise their kids in a building downtown, but there is a serious shortage of 3 bedroom apartments. The few that are available are extremely expensive and unaffordable unless you have a pretty high family income. So people get driven away against their preference. I stayed downtown with a kid, but my friends who wanted more than one were all driven out of the core, even when they wanted to stay.

Developers don't build many of these units in towers, because they're not nearly as profitable. But if the city made it a lot easier to build three-plexes, six-plexes or small apartment buildings in the single family house neighbourhoods, building things like that would be profitable. And they'd be snapped up right away, but eventually building enough of them would make a difference.

In most of the best neighbourhoods downtown (Annex, Danforth, Seaton Village, etc.) there are fewer people living in those neighbourhoods than there was in 1970. There are tons of perfectly nice small apartment buildings dotted throughout those neighbourhoods which have spacious units that families can afford, but it's completely illegal to build any of those now. Just look at the 225 Brunswick thread.

The GTA now has more than six million people. There are maybe 100,000 (?) single family homes near downtown, and another one will never be built. We need to give families other options to stay downtown and lead a walkable climate-friendly lifestyle.

And yeah, even despite this all, St. Lawrence, the waterfront and Corktown are seriously short of schools.
 
I own a condo, and I get asked about selling as well. Pretty sure there are people who move from houses to condos too.
I think it's more a problem with having too many independent real estate agents or ones that work for smaller companies that don't access the listings and instead try to go door to door.
 

Back
Top