[innsertnamehere]

Admittingly the view I used if further east than depicted in the render, the lower portion of the CN tower would be blocked if the image was taken at Sherbourne like the render. it is possible to get a view like that though.

 

[junior43]

Sober second thought?

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/tra...t_experts_warn_about_gardiner_demolition.html

I'm of the same view. We can get rid of the Gardiner - eventually - but not until there's better transit options, this is a recipe for disaster.

I'm all for tolling the Gardiner (and DVP) in it's existing form and finding out if tolls could also fund burying it. I'd prefer it, but doubt it would fund itself without a large tax levy (+7%?) at first.

I like the refurbed(improve) option as best - improve the underneath environment and repair/replace the Gardiner at the same time. Those pretty pictures of bike lanes beside the GO tracks and no Gardiner, they can still be used with the Gardiner still there. Some things obviously need to be adjusted, but there's no reason we can't have the 'best' of both worlds.

 

[rbt]

Sober second thought?

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/tra...t_experts_warn_about_gardiner_demolition.html

I'm of the same view. We can get rid of the Gardiner - eventually - but not until there's better transit options, this is a recipe for disaster.

The good news is GO has EA's going to add full day and additional rush-hour service to most of their lines; somewhere around 10x the capacity that Gardiner modifications would remove; and GO improvements will be done first as that section of Gardiner is many years away from starting.

The bad news is it's entirely separate from the city so they can't be linked as dependencies.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

“If downtown Toronto is the heart of the GTA, the Gardiner Expressway is the aorta. I am having hard time envisioning Toronto without an aorta.”

The Gardiner is an important roadway but hardly an aorta. It carries a tiny fraction of people into the downtown core that public transit does. If downtown has an aorta it's the YUS and GO (I'm nitpicking).

Tearing down the Gardiner would also increase travel times for people taking public transit, Haider said. If even 15 per cent of drivers on the Gardiner switched to transit, Toronto’s already maxed-out transit system would buckle under the pressure, he said.

This seems a little sensationalist to me. Even if all of the 4,500 drivers on the Gardiner East were to start taking public transit, it would easily be offset by the planned additions to our GO system. And considering that we'll have ATC on our YUS line in the near future and our Relief Line (likely 2022) opening only a few years after the Gardiner comes down, I have a hard time seeing his predicted catastrophe happening. And if there were an LRT on Lakeshore it would further mitigate concerns of our transit system "buckling under the pressure". These four things alone would easily offset any lost transportation capacity from the demolition of Gardiner East several times over.

 

[FNTS]

It's hardly an aorta, let's take a look at how many people actually use that section of the Gardiner during the AM peak hour:

_____________

Only 7% of people going into downtown. And for some reason that includes all the people going East entering Toronto through the Spadina and York/Bay/Yonge exits, which wouldn't be affected. And it's only 10 minutes per trip during peak times for people on longer trips, for shorter trips and/or off-peak it would be even less.

 

[EnviroTO]

I'll be the one to play the pick on the artist's rendering games. Just where along the Gardiner/Lakshore would you have this kind of view of the CN Tower? From the west there would have to be the Rogers Centre nearby. From the east would it not be obscured by the Southcore buildings?

The rail corridor curves and at Union Station and Southcore the rail corridor is at its widest, and at the CN tower it is much thinner so it is very possible to have this perspective.

https://www.google.ca/maps/preview/...ata=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sfwa6IRzB2IKM5VzKE32xUw!2e0

 

[nfitz]

Only 7% of people going into downtown. And for some reason that includes all the people going East entering Toronto through the Spadina and York/Bay/Yonge exits, which wouldn't be affected.

And all the people going east and west, only passing through downtown. Liberty Village to Eglinton/DVP and Beaches to Etobicoke trips for example.

An interesting question would be what % of cars both eastbound and westbound using the Gardiner between the DVP and Jarvis, are heading downtown.

I think the effect on travel times to downtown is a red herring.

 

[Conrad Black]

Amazing to see there's talk of taking the east end down. Great stuff!

 

[Conrad Black]

It looks pretty accurate to me (minus the fancy buildings not yet built):

This is it. 18 Yonge is slightly left of the CN Tower straight down the middle of the image.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

The Globe and Mail claims that, "Tearing down the Gardiner Expressway east of Jarvis would... cost motorists as much as 30 minutes in daily commute times, new figures show." I can't find this cited anywhere in the report.

Globe and Mail

 

[BMO]

It is not punishing drivers. Most of those drivers shouldn't be driving there and causing all the noise and congestion, not to say loss of land value in the first place. How many of those cars are just passing by, without even entering downtown Toronto? Isn't it a stupid idea to allow thousands of cars to just pass through the downtown of a major city from one suburb to another

Those who do end up downtown, well, there is the Go train specifically for that purpose if it is just for work, and other transit options as well. Yes, it takes longer, but that's the price you pay for living too far away from some where you need to go frequently.

wow...you managed to fit so much wrong in such little space. The key to improving a city is to create better alternatives. NOT to force people to do what YOU want. There's a reason a lot of people use the subway to get downtown. Because it's the best choice for them. Likewise, the same can be said for housing choices. You give better choices, diminish the need for the Gardner, THEN dismantle it. You can't even fit onto a subway to get downtown, and GO trains are soon approaching capacity, so how do people expect this car traffic to be off-loaded onto transit?

I hate the Gardner as much as the next person, but do you really trust a government that can't even come to a consensus on LRT or Subway to be able to expand transit downtown?

 

[devjohnson]

I'll post what I posted in the other Gardiner thread

Traffic will get a bit worse, but drivers will find alternative - hopefully switching over to public transit.

Besides, if we waste billions on a tunnel, it only encourages more people to bring their cars downtown. Once they open up a tunnel, over time it'll just get crowded and gridblocked again. There has to be a point where you stop expanding...what's going to happen 20 years from now when even more development comes downtown? Do people expect the city should expand the Gardiner even more?

There's no use making a tunnel when it would just hold over traffic problems for 10 years at most.

 

[bobbob911]

I'll post what I posted in the other Gardiner thread

Traffic will get a bit worse, but drivers will find alternative - hopefully switching over to public transit.

Besides, if we waste billions on a tunnel, it only encourages more people to bring their cars downtown. Once they open up a tunnel, over time it'll just get crowded and gridblocked again. There has to be a point where you stop expanding...what's going to happen 20 years from now when even more development comes downtown? Do people expect the city should expand the Gardiner even more?

There's no use making a tunnel when it would just hold over traffic problems for 10 years at most.

I'm not in favor of burying the gardiner either, and I think with the right planning and infrastructure there could be a day where we could tear it down - but that day is not today, and will not be for the next 20 years.

You want to know what alternatives drivers will find? They will drive on King, and Queen, and Front, and Richmond, and Adelaide. And they will be frustrated, and there will be more accidents, and streetcars will run slower. What they *wont* do is magically decide to take the GO train or TTC.

 

[BMO]

There's no use making a tunnel when it would just hold over traffic problems for 10 years at most.

the same train of thought can be said for tearing down the Gardner. "it'll only be a bit longer of a commute...for 10 years at most" especially if there isn't a plan for downtown transit expansion. People forget that the transit network and the downtown roads have a set capacity just as a highway does. Something's gotta give if you want to move people around, trips don't just evaporate because you tear down a highway.

 

[devjohnson]

I'm not in favor of burying the gardiner either, and I think with the right planning and infrastructure there could be a day where we could tear it down - but that day is not today, and will not be for the next 20 years.

You want to know what alternatives drivers will find? They will drive on King, and Queen, and Front, and Richmond, and Adelaide. And they will be frustrated, and there will be more accidents, and streetcars will run slower. What they *wont* do is magically decide to take the GO train or TTC.

the same train of thought can be said for tearing down the Gardner. "it'll only be a bit longer of a commute...for 10 years at most" especially if there isn't a plan for downtown transit expansion. People forget that the transit network and the downtown roads have a set capacity just as a highway does. Something's gotta give if you want to move people around, trips don't just evaporate because you tear down a highway.

Agree with both of you! As much as I'd love to see the Gardiner torn down as quick as possible, we can't move forward until we have a DRL or some form of proper transit infrastructure! And not a Scarborough subway...we need downtown relief. We can barely fit anymore people on the Yonge line for rush hour as is, just imagine in 10 years with no Gardiner.